"Cashing in - hard but worth it" Topic

After nearly 8 years of steady miniatures gaming I recently decided to just stop the insanity. I spent the better part of 2 months selling off my collections, terrain, rulebooks and paraphenalia and Im now miniatures-free.

Ill admit its of an adjustment. Removing such a huge part of your daily life and pysche isnt easy. So much of my routine was centered around the hobby (such as frequenting this website) that without it I sort of felt adrift for a bit, aimless. Im getting through that though and am now discovering a lot of freetime to pursue other endeavors , something I havent had in years.

Im still tinkering with boardgaming a bit and rediscovering what drew me into gaming as a teenager all over again. Some of the joy that has been masked by miniatures-based hassles and dissapointments. Imagine…

Playing a game when you feel like it, not in 3 months once youve bought and recieved miniatures, painted thousands of them, built terrain, etc etc.

Playing a game according to the rules and not being subjected to the constant judgement calls of range, movement distances, line of sight etc.

Playing a game that required a $50 USD investment rather than $1,000 USD only to discover its not all you thought it would be and simply returning it to the shelf rather than struggling through a hopeful Ebay campaign to recover your loss.

Playing a game where you buddies simply help you decide which of many on your shelf to play on game night rather than having to run a political campaign to attempt to get everyone on the same page, and keep them there for weeks while you get ready.

Playing a game that sets up and breaks down in a number of minutes and can be enjoyed in an evening instead of consuming your gaming room for weeks and prohibiting your from doing much of anything else.

Playing a game that requires your buddies merely to show up rather than expecting the same expenditure of money and time you've put into the project – only to find they havent, leaving you with the burden of carrying the load yourself or bowing out.

I could go on but Im sure Im probably ticking some miniatures gamers off in this thread so Ill stop. It is YOUR website afterall, and Im probably no longer in familiar company here.

I wanted to post though in case there are others that find themselves locked into the NOTION of how great their miniatures hobby is when in actuality they havent enjoyed it for years. THERE IS A WAY OUT, JUST SAY NO!

I struggled with dissapointment and expectations not being met for years. Always searching for that next elusive project that would change everything. I spent $1000s and deprived myself of countless hours that could have been put to a more contructive use. Finally I realized my vision of my hobby was all hype and no substance. Even the so-called successful projects really didnt measure up.

It was tough but I kicked the habit and although I feel a little spot of emptiness there, Im a far happier gamer.

If your out there, you can do it too. Just do it, stop the insanity!

Er, I think you've posted this on the wrong site.

Fess up. You work for Milton Bradley don't you?

Tell us what games you gave up and what armies you sold. Have any pictures to share?

No, I dont think so. The post is miniatures related, albiet not a positive thread granted. Still, from discussions Ive had with other miniatures gamers, I know Im not alone. Many struggle with the desire to project something on the gaming table that frankly rarely reaches the potential they hope for.

I realize it might bruise some sensibilities here but I dont mean to offend anyone. If you are happy with your hobby as it..>GREAT! But some, just like me, may not be. Sometimes quitting is a viable option of all attempts to fix the problem have failed. Afterall, its a hobby, they are supposed to be FUN first.

"Just do it, stop the insanity"

I had a break from minis wargaming for a while (well, ten years!).

Wisely I didn't sell much of my stuff, so when I returned to the fold I still had a lot of it.

Play short, simple games these days which don't require a ton of stuff. I do have a ton of stuff of course, but I enjoy painting & modelling.

Still, it's a hobby not a job, and if you don't enjoy it, then no point in going on.

Yep, you're certainly not preaching to the right crowd here. It would work better at Board game geek.

;-D

Thanks,

John

WWII 28mm Skirmish, 10mm Fantasy, Starship Combat, 2mm Civil War, 28mm Civil War skirmish, 28mm Sci-fi, 28mm Post Apoc, 28mm Pirates, 15mm Sci-fi, 28mm Ancients, 20mm CarWars, 28mm Nappies, 28mm Modern, etc.

Pictures, only a few, deleted hundreds. Didnt feel having them around would make this shift any easier. Sort of like keeping a photo of your ex-wife in your wallet. She wasnt good for you but when you look at the picture you get a little bit of a tug anyway.

Seriously though, I do understand what you mean Grumpy. It takes a hell of a lot of effort to put together what you want to see on the table, doesn't it? Sorry for my flippant remark earlier.

It sounds like you had a very nice collection and one that took some time to sell, as you said 2 months. What percentage was painted? What unit did you invest the most time in, or was the hardest to part with?

You'll be back. When you start wishing that the Risk pieces were painted, adding a mini to the counter to tell what it is. Dreaming of skirmish level combat on a nice table.

You'll be back

It will start with looking in the aisles at all the models thinking you could build 1/72 scale WWII tanks again maybe even make a great diorama. Then the figures then the painting. Then locating some lost set of 20mm WWII skirmish rules. It will close in, like a dark tide it will sweep over you. Maybe it will be a set of figures you owned long ago and just for old time sakes you'll paint them for a display piece. The hook will be set.

You can check out any time you like, but you can't ever leave.

No problem GG – that was part of my problem. I put a LOT into my games. I took a certain pride in never running anything less than a high-quality layout. Carefully painted figs, mostly hand crafted terrain (some called it museum quality, lofty but I appreciated the praise). I spent literally months on a single layout.. many times to play only once or twice as the whim of the group spiraled off elsewhere or what have you. Really dissapointing and ultimately defeating.

Kudos, it sounds like you made the move you needed to. I had the same moment years ago but it was board games when all I did was role-playing. I kept a few though, and they still don't see any play time.

tabletop warrior – LOL, well spoken and you may be right of course but not for a LONG time.

Some times though if you have too many things too focus you can feel lost in the attempt to get ready. Maybe after the dust settles you'll find a single thing to focus on and comback a bit slower.

8 years and all of those genres. I can understand why you feel frustrated. Maybe one at a time or something with cross genre potential.

Fair enough Grumpygamer, its your choice . To be honest I do agree with what you are saying about the complete hassle of it all simply to have a three hour game of toy soldiers. The proportion of time spent in preparation to actual gaming is huge and for some it must suddenly become not worth it.

However the same could be said about (say) an olympic marathon runner, all that time training when he could have just gone out for a l'aal jog instead. Or the cordon bleu chef, when he could have just gone out to the chip shop or pizza place. Ultimately you get out what you put in but if you decide its not enough than fair enough.

Actually I feel we are, to a certain extent led to great expectations by the glossy magazines and the net which show collectors standard figures and terrain and 1000's of figures on the table. Years ago we just played games and had fun, now we have a self-imposed race to try and do it like we saw in the mags- and consequently get all disappointed when we can't match up.

Enjoy your new hobby and thanks for posting. Sometimes we do need to hear things that we would rather not.

Graham

Graham

"Ultimately you get out what you put in but if you decide its not enough than fair enough."

You may have cut right to the point there. In my experience one NEVER got what one put into a miniatures project. Unless the "journey" was an end in of itself, you lose, every time.

Sort of like that olympian discovering right before the event that they want him to just run around and sell hotdogs instead, or that Chef assigned to making them.

Actually I see where you are coming from – I am culling a lot now as the ramp up time is too long and my gaming time is reducing. Focussing on a couple of things that I already have well underway and doing them well is actually making me enjoy my gaming much more now.

Good move Tod, if I had come to that conclusion much earlier Id have avoided a lot of grief.

I started my hobby with a collection of WWII 28mm. In the first year I painted up something in the neighborhood of 800 infantry and 120 vehicles, not to mention a TON of hand-made terrain. I should have stayed right there but when the attendance in my games began to wain, as my buddies moved on to other interests, I started playing the field… and thus began the nightmare. I should have stayed with it.

Anything to excess is bad….some people are prone to getting too wrapped up in things to the exclusion of other things…..it's all about balance. Good luck, hombre.

Heretic! :-)

Ahh. . . well I see you didn't do any historical naval gaming. . . THAT would have made all the difference! :) j/k

Seriously though. . . I've found myself to be in the opposite position. I just can't really get into board and card games anymore. They seem so abstract and pointless to me.

I will say that I do just concentrate on a couple games at a time. If I get tired of one thing I set it aside for a while and play another, only to return to it later. Sometimes that can be a long later. . . but I hang onto the stuff.

For instance, I blew the dust off my 6mm sci-fi stuff for the first time in about 8 years – and admittedly its for a different game than the one I bought them for. . . but I was very glad I resisted the urging of my wife to sell it a few years back.

As others have said, it could be that 5 or 10 years from now, you decide its time to get back and and wish you hadn't sold all that stuff. I'd suggest you concentrate on one or two things and not spread yourself so thin.

That's the thing about miniatures: they're a durable gaming component. I expect my minis to last as long as I do. If you concentrate only on the things you really like, that army you painted up is a one-time labor practice; 20 years from now you could break out those same figures and have a game.

It sounds like with 800 figures and 120 vehicles for WWII you could conceivably never have painted another figure again, unless you wanted to.

While this is of course not my decision, I think if I were in a similar position, I'd have just packed it all up and stored it in the basement/attic/garage, etc. until a sunnier day came along…

Damon.

I started selling off my board games --- because I needed room for figures and terrain and all that other stuff.

As for his gripes, those don't exist in my world. This hobby is what you make it. If you want a nit-picky environment, you can sure create that but you don't have to put up with it.

If you want to try something new and no one else is too enthused about it, maybe you need to check out what they want to do and go with the flow.

mjc

Quid,

Ah, the ole "go with the flow" bid

Ive heard that from some of my gaming group. "We are all hyped about 20mm Fuzzmonkies, why dont you paint up an army and join in?"

Sounds good but honestly with the time and effort required in miniatures, you really have to have a passion for the topic or its just labor and expense. Sure, you can show up on game day and play the damn thing they are all excited about, to support the group and hang out with your friends a bit, but its not that much fun. Try doing that longterm and the whole thing gets sour.

Sort of like having to read your wife's Harlequin Romance books after she does so you can have something to talk about. It will endear you to her sure, and its a nice gesture.. but UGGGHHHH!

* years is not even a bump in the road of time for many of the veteran older gamers. I have been collecting games adn miniatures since the 1970s.

If your passion for the hobby only lasted 8 years , you were never serious about it. You did not mention specifically what type of collection you had, What type of gaming did you start with? I have an idea but it may not be correct.
I have been in the hobby a very long time. If I get out it will be because of health reasons. There are always reasons, wife, family, finances, health, and others?
It is a chore to Get out of the hobby. After you do, enjpy a new hobby.

For the past several years I've been selling off (or giving away to friends) large sections of my collections, when I realize that I haven't touched them in years, and probably won't… or when I realize I still like this period, but want to do it in a different scale.

It feels very virtuous to collect the money on Ebay and to clear out the closet space. It keeps "hobby money" recycling back around and doesn't waste space. It's also a lot of fun to contemplate what new project I want to start from scratch.

WWII 28mm Skirmish, 10mm Fantasy, Starship Combat, 2mm Civil War, 28mm Civil War skirmish, 28mm Sci-fi, 28mm Post Apoc, 28mm Pirates, 15mm Sci-fi, 28mm Ancients, 20mm CarWars, 28mm Nappies, 28mm Modern, etc.

Hmm…your real problem here is that you appear to be a butterfly gamer, flitting from one project to another as the interest grows and then wanes. I speak from the standpoint of being a butterfly wargamer. It's a common problem.

The only difference is I've hung onto most of my stuff as I expect to drift back to it at some time. That's been about 25% true, but it's not possible to identify the 25% that I will drift back to.

As possibly the slowest painter in the world I'm also very loath to part with anything I've actually managed to finish.

Have fun with the boardgames.

Don't let your hobby stress you.

If you find yourself caught between wanting to play more games vs. spending time to create the gameset (minis, terrain, etc.), maybe it's time to rethink. Are you setting your standards too high? Should you get more gaming out of your existing collection, rather than spending the time to expand the collection? Should you shift your gaming to subjects that require less preparation – skirmish gaming, for instance? Do you need to consider pre-painted figures, using a painting service, or using paper miniatures? Would a different scale (a smaller scale) work better for you?

I am thinking small skirmish wargamming is the way to go sometimes. Small amount of figures to purchase and paint, buy terrain, which saves you hours from scratchbuilidng.
But then again I love seeing HUNDREDS of figures on the tabel, there's the rub!

Sounds like you are in the predicament I am in. I have plenty of gaming buddies. The problem I have is that they are not all miniature gamers. Only 1 other than my self game with minis and he is a fantasy gamer mainly. By and large, I have to provide both armies. To that end, I concentrate on smaller, simpler games. My terrain layout is very simple as well. I don't worry about the high quality bit though I do paint the figures do a good level.

I'm cutting back as well though I am keeping all the figures I have painted over the years. At some point, I will not paint anymore except the odd figure for relaxation.

John

Thanks for the comments guys, and support. Actually a vast majority of my gaming was Skirmish scale but I could never get into the typical "10 guys to a side, couple of buildings and a clump of trees" type thing. My skirmish games usually involved at least a couple of platoons, dozens of buildings, wiht fully accessible interiors etc. In other words, as much if not more work and money than your typical 15mm mass combat affair. Honestly, I wouldnt be interested in anything less. If your going to use miniatures, it has to be GRAND! But the price can be too high, and the grandness lost in a mire of varying participation, differences in opinion, lack of support, crappy rules, difficult personalities.. and on and on.

I'm actually with Grumpy. I've been selling off a lot of my stuff as it rarely sees the light of day and takes up too much space (and I have a big house). I also don't like the setup time required for a nice layout-I need to go to modular terrain boards (which take storage space). Although I won't totally get out of miniatures, I might drop to, say, 10mm scale and basing that allows a 6 player convention game on a 6x4 table. I've been selling things off in spurts and I haven't really missed what I've sold off. Actually, it gives me funds to "re-orient" my collection – a large part of the hobby for me is the painting part so selling figs means funds to buy more figs to paint! A lot of stuff I bought was impulse buys with figs I'm never going to use.

Just read Grump's latest response as I posted mine. The other issue I have is that as I've gotten older, what I'm, willing to play has gotten narrower. When I first started out I'd play anything since I didn't own anything myself. As I got older and started buying my own stuff, my interests focused onto what I was doing. So now I only want to play "The War of Jenkin's Ear" at the division level using either the "Earache My Eye" or "Q-Tips and Cottonswabs" rules only. Trying to find 3-4 other people in the same area who share my interests is tough. It might be better if I just got rid of all my stuff then I'd be more open to playing YOUR favorite system since I'd have no toys of my own.

I hear you Dave, and gave that some thought as well. Ill probably be more open to participate in the group's games now (When they have them, which is seldom). However, having no investment also means a "devil may care" attitude where playing is concerned. Sort of hard to care who wins when you have no stock in the game, still its nice to hang out and eat a few chips with the guys, no matter what your doing. BIG change from my previous attitude toward games though. Of course waiting around for a game that actually interests you can mean LONG waits. Im not the only one thats been burned and the group leaders dont seem as productive as they used to by and large.

I play skirmish for the most part, so a new period for me can mean as few as 20 figures, and seldom more than 50.

I also try to match any new purchases with at least one element of my existing collection. So the 28mm ECW skirmish minis I'm working on at the moment can fight each other, plus my horror minis and some fantasy skirmish forces I have. Those same horror minis work with my pulp figures, both sets work with my "Back of Beyond" Chinese warlord and RCW collection… you get the picture.

I made a decision to stick with 28mm, with WWII in 1/72 being the exception (too much good stuff WWII in 1/72 scale to pass up). That way I can be a butterfly collector, and every time I add a new force, I add at least one more genre to what I can game. It also means I can provide all the forces required for other players.

It's amazing the range you can collect with that "six degrees of separation" approach.

I suppose it helps that I love painting – I can see that if you're not into that, or the collecting aspect of the hobby, then it can become a major pain just to get a game in.

Good luck with your new choice of hobby – sounds like you're enjoying it, and that's the main thing.

In the words of Curly Bill Brocious (Tombstone), "Well…bye."

Do you propose to save us all from our tiresome pursuits?Locked into a hobby? I'm not even sure what that means.

I'm glad you discovered this is not the hobby for you. Why not just leave it behind and focus on the positive aspects of your new one?

I really do wish you the best, though I wonder if in another 8 years you will be complaining about a dusty shelf full of worthless boardgames that no one else wants to play. Your revelation is a personal one, and while I'm sure other suffering souls share your perspective, it's not the hobby. It's just you.

After writing that last post Ill have to add that I dont necessarily see my own experience as so isolated as one might think. I see a gradual fading of the miniatures gaming experience to be honest. Modern life simply clogging the typical gamer down with so much crap that he doesnt have time anymore. Even those dedicated miniatures die-hards have slowly embraced the more quick and easy games, fewer miniatures, less work etc.

Our own group, made up of generally guys pressing 50 games maybe 25% of what we used to, and the percentage continues to drop. With no new gamers coming up, we will most likely be extinct here locally in another 10 years or so if I had my guess.

Not that this has anything directly to do with my decision but I think it true all the same.

ageofgloomy

Locked into a hobby means having spent so much money and time on a subject that you feel compelled to participate in it, even if the original enthusiasm has wained.

I dont prepose to save anyone, but perhaps give the occasional gamer who may be facing some of the same issues I have, something to consider.

I dont particularly have a new hobby, certainly not Boardgaming.. its there mainly as an inexpensive option on the rare evening when family, work and such dont have me booked.

I agree that my decision and perspective is a personal one, but it was affected by various traits most (as proven in this thread) identify the miniatures hobby as displaying. I tried to illuminate some of those here, and several have admitted they can identify. Im not raining on the hobby however, only explaining how one very devout gamer could have turned away.

"Modern life simply clogging the typical gamer down with so much crap that he doesnt have time anymore."

Wargaming doesn't HAVE to be the 6 hour slogging sessions of our youth … these days anything over 2 hours is getting too long for me. So I design and play shorter, simple games.

I think there may be a difference of perspective here. In the UK a 6x4ft table is widely regarded as the "norm" and a game on such a table usually takes 3 to 4 hours, which is why I consider even a 6x4 to be "big". Most of my gaming fits on a 4x2.5.

I understand that in the US big tables (12ft plus) are more common. This games are typically bigger and longer.

I suggest if things are paling then think small!!

Good point Mike, my smallest table set up was 6x10'

GG

If you were the only one making an effort, that is burdensome in the extreme and would wear anyone's enthusiasm down to zero.

On that note modern life doesn't have to have your entire day pre-planned from the beginning either. I have one night a week I dedicate to gaming, to all other exclusions. This is with agreement with the Significant Other (she gets her days too), and by mutual agreement this night is inviolate, save sickness, emergency, or the like (we have our "date nights" on Saturdays!). With all the modern technology available, you can Tivo your favorite shows, and there is always the internet.

I also fully intend to introduce my kids to gaming at some point, to see if they're interested. I have 2 girls, so my work is cut out for me. That being said, being a girl does not mean you cannot be a gamer; one of the register operators at my FLGS is a female, and whenever I go I see her working on fantasy minis, and I would be perfectly happy if my girls showed an interest too.

Damon.

"Modern life simply clogging the typical gamer down with so much crap that he doesnt have time anymore."

I stopped watching TV. I might watch 5 hours a week, tops. While she watches her shows, I paint in a table 2 meters away from her. It is always possible to reassign priorities.

"I suggest if things are paling the think small!!"

Yes, small is beautiful.

I get a big kick out of playing "Call of Duty" now also.
Instant wargame gratification. And there are always hundereds of gamers online available to skirmish with.

All of our lives are so intricately different, its impossible to place your own values, concerns or solutions on someone else. I know that. Painting while setting with the wife watching TV, setting a "ME NIGHT" in stone etc. Nice suggestions but not realistic for all of us. Still I appreciate the ideas.

I took a ten year break from mini-gaming. When I came back to the hobby I made a list of things that led to my decade-long hiatus and decided to avoid those things this time around.

I felt like I spent too much time painting figures (mainly because I wanted mine to look just like those in the magazines), so I switched from 28mm to 15mm and literally had less to paint and didn't feel bad about taking more of a production line approach to painting them (all that detail on the 28mm figs just screamed to be, well, detailed).

I felt like I could never truly settle into a game comfortably because a new version was always coming out with new figures I needed to buy just to keep up – so I dropped out of the "miniature of the month" scene and left "mainstream" rules in favor of indie games that didn't have a miniature line to hawk.

I'd never been able to have a real game room because I just couldn't justify a 4'x8' foot gaming table and all the storage to support it. The shift to 15mm helped in this regard, but I also started looking at how I played games and what I wanted out of them. I was more interested in picking up at the point of action than in spending hours crossing an empty table – so I switched to a smaller table size and designed my scenarios appropriately.

The power-gaming and mainstream game orientation of most game clubs I'd been in annoyed me, so I didn't look for a club. I rounded up some folks I'd played with in the past who were interested in roughly the same thins as me and we just started playing – we played each other's "pet games" out of friendship and courtesy, but eventually settled on a single game to play most of the time.

Going Cold Turkey on mini-gaming might be the way to go for some folks. Personally, though, I feel if I can drink responsibly, surely I can GAME responsibly. I avoid the stuff I don't like and embrace the stuff I do. I keep my expectations grounded in the reasonable based on years of experience with gaming and gamers and thereby limit my disappointment – I also remember that it really is just a game. If I'm not having fun with it, I might be playing it wrong.

Seek professional help. Miniatures is much less about playing a game than a life purpose. The anticipation is much better than the realization. Without miniatures my lief would have little purpose and I like it that way.

Without miniatures my lief would have little purpose and I like it that way

Seek professional help

!!! :-)

Shagnasty… interesting… but Ill add that if your hobby provokes more dissapointment, frustration and debate than it does enjoyment… time to drop it.