"Painting with "Triad" Systems" Topic

I have two different questions/requests to pose, but they are related. Please feel free to address either or both as you wish.

First, I would like to get people's overall impressions on the Foundry Paint System and Reaper Master Series "Triad" color systems. I'm not just talking about the quality or characteristics of the paints themselves, but also the actual color selections for shade and highlight colors "they" have mad for those lines. I've heard some complaints concerning some of the Foundry triads. I am seriously considering moving to one of these triad-systems for the obvious reasons: speed and ease.

I've also heard that Coat D'arms have put out a sort of unofficial triad-grouping guide for their paints. Has anyone seen this? There was a reference to it on a forum post I read somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it.

Are there any other manufacturers (of high-quality paints) that are moving to a similar triad system, either for packaging purposes or just as a handy guide-system? I'd be very interested to know peoples' opinions on various paint-lines in regards to being able to easily use pre-mixed colors for shading and highlighting. I've never really been good at tone-matching for shade-mixes. I lose a lot of painting time in that area, and for me lack of production = lack of interest in painting!

Second, I've been using Vallejo Model Colors for years now, and have no complaints about the quality at all. However, as stated above, I really don't like having to spend time trying to get the right tonal mix for shade and highlight colors. Does anyone have a shading color guide of some kind for that paint line? (either of their own design or from somewhere else) I've searched the net and come up with nothing so far. I have sixty-some paints from that line, so if I could stick with them long-term I wouldn't have to reinvest in a new line of paints.

The Darkson Desings Painting Guide Volume 1 does have a handy Vallejo Model Color chart for mixing, but I'd prefer not to have to do any more mixing that necessary. The Model Color line is extensive so I would imagine it's possible to "group" existing colors into triads, but I'm not sure. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Hellchylde

I ended up making my own "triads", "quadrads" or "quintads" depending on the colour.
By taking the base colour I wanted as a mid tone, buying 2 of them and splitting the 2nd pot into 2 halves in empty pots, adding a pale colour to one half and a darker colour to the other you can make your own perfect triad.
This 3 stage is fine for flesh, blacks and greys on tabletop standard figures but for other colours (for me, red and green especially) I have made 4 or 5 tones so the graduation is more subtle.

I use Foundry. I think the color selection is excellent, but the difference between base to shade to highlight can be big with some colors, and not enough for others (many are just right!); I just do a mix between colors if that difference is too big (and really, just one mix between shades is all you'll need), but I do like to paint high contrast as well, and the Foundry work just dandy!

I haven't tried the Reaper triads, but I have painted with Reapers (Pro-paints). I actually prefer (not by much) the quality of the Reapers.

I used to use almost exclusively Vallejo with some GW. Recently, I've given Foundry paints a try, and I really like the paints as well as the triad they have. The flesh and the reds are especially nice. I don't have any problems with the triad I've seen so far (I've got most of their Napoleonics plus quite a few of their original set)

I still use lots of Vallejo, for which I've made my own duos (I usually go for a 2 shade method for most rank and file) or triads. Foundry and Vallejo are my two favourite brand at the moment.

Here are the CDA triads:

link

Here is a link about how they look when painted:

link

I use some Dallimore type techniques, but mostly my own color choices.

I asked myself this very question on Monday. I've used the various Reaper skin tone colors. I like them. The shading is much more subtle than some of the other lines, which I prefer. On Monday, I ordered a 40 or so Reaper Master triad paints that I'm going to try out. I chose them over Foundry, mostly due to price, and Coat D'Arms didn't have the variety I wanted yet. They only have a few triads.

I'm not crazy about Vallejo paints. I find them too thin. I known how to thin my own paints and for so many of my Vallejo paints, I have to wait for the water to evaporate from the palette before I can use it.

Steve
Cavalcade Wargames
cavalcadewargames.com
nycjadie.wordpress.com

I use the Reaper triad system and find them great, I started with them back when they first came out. Everything on my blog has been painted with them link

I do use vallejo once in a while and don't really use any of the rest.

Ok well, I have to say that I would buy all the triads. There are some I use more than others. Also, some triads have their colors too close together or too far apart for my taste.

If they are too close, not worth the effort, if too far apart, doesn't look good. So that leaves you with having to wet the colors and mix them which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place.

Ten years ago, I bought the whole load of Foundry paint system. I use some of those today still although I must admit that they are a bit dried out and I throw a couple out every week. What happened to me was that I got lots of colors I hardly ever used. I paint mostly historical and focus mostly on WW2. I found that three triads of light blue and yellow wasn't something I really needed. I ended up selling those or just carrying them around. I really had no true use for those. So heads up. You need to know what you mostly paint.

Remember, there is no perfect solution for this issue. You need to find a compromise that you are happy with and allow you to reach your goals.

I agree with you-mixing sucks. Especially when you are doing large batches of figures unless, of course, you mix all your paint in a pot and have it ready to go when you want it as some guys do. It is messy and you waste paint. It is much neater to get the paints all ready to go but as I said before-there is no panacea.

If you want, figure out what you will paint by going through your collection. Make a schedule. I look and see what I have and set aside painting projects one, two and three. At which time, I do mental painting. I plan out which colors to use and how I want them to look as my result. This is also related to the models themselves. Models with deeper folds such as OG models, I use more washes because it is easier and faster. Flatter figures like Foundry, Artizan and Crusader, where the model almost acts like a canvas, you can use triads. Again all this is in my view.

Lots of great painters here may disagree with some of what I say especially the ones that look at their work as the answer to miniatures painting. That said I will summarize for you.

First, make a plan. Look at what you will be painting for the next month or two.

Check what paints you have already and decide if you can put triads together yourself and possibly try them out on the figures to see if you like how it turns out. Also, you can get opinions if you choose. How helpful these are is debatable. Don't be afraid of experimentation although I would keep it to a figure or so.

A real cheap way to go is get a couple of triads and then go to the craft store and start making your own. I was able to match Foundry flesh triad almost exactly at a good craft store with lots of paints. But remember craft store paints can be hit or miss for figures. It is trial and error. But the truth is is that some guys here get really good results using the craft store triads they devised. This may be too time consuming for you and you may want to avoid it if your time is at a premium.

Secondly, once you know what you will paint, you will then have an idea which colors you will need. Examine trouser colors, tunic colors and flesh. These are the colors you will use the most. So you may want to consider getting triads for these. You will want to get the triads for these pieces. Seldom is it necessary to use triads on belts, or rifles, or shoes or buckles two colors are usually enough. So for the smaller accoutrements you may want to just mix a second color to save paint and money. Since these items are small and require little paint it isn't as messy as when mixing to paint ten trousers or ten tunics.

If you take a look at KD painting book that is pretty cheap now on Amazon. I bought it for $50 USD and I have seen it for $20. USD Grrrrr….Great book BTW. This will help you get into his mind. The chops don't come from a book but a personal philosophy may.

All an all I tried to make some sense of all my thoughts for you but it's not always easy since my mind has a tendency to jump around on me. Some sort of ADD I suppose. I hope that some of what I said helps you. I am always available to shoot the breeze about painting. Just contact me.

At the moment, I will be doing some 20mm DAK and Flames of War Brit trucks. Keep us updated on what you are up to.

Regards,
Combatpainter

I paint exclusively with foundry paints and have the original set and expansion – some 50 triads.

I've also had no problem using GW washes and artist inks with them

On the whole they are excellent. a couple of the triads have a significant 'step' in tone between the mid colour and the highlight (i've not noticed a jarring step between shade and mid on any of the paints) but because these colours have the same hue simply mixing a little mid and highlight rectifies this.

Heartily recommended.

I'm bad at mixing colours and building palettes – the Foundry triads have helped me improve enourmously.

Of course, if you actually have artistic talent and/or colour sense it might not be as important for you.

My excperience and preferences are very similar to the Evilcartoonist. I primarily use Foundry, but supplement with other ranges including GW, Reaper Master, Vallejo (both Game Colour and Model), Coat d Arms and P3. I'm partially colorblind and don't completely trust myself mixing a 3, 4 or 5 shade spectrum from one base color…so I'll take the help when I can get it.

The newer Foundry triad sets, WWII and Naps, are much closer together in tones than the earlier sets. To me that's somewhat a negative, because the base layer doesn't seem quite dark enough for shadows. I'll end up having to mix up a base layer or more highlights to get the whole to look right to me. I'd rather stay within the triad and mix between the three to get my 3 to 5 layers than pull in another color to go deeper or lighter. Doesn't stop me from using them, I just rather liked the wider color distribution of the older triads. There are some duds in the triads, but only a few; still, I'd recommend buying the smaller sets and adding in some other triads rather than buying the complete system. Foundry is expensive but the pots are very large and the paint is thick so you'll have to thin before you apply. 2 or three pots of other brands would last me as long as 1 Foundry pot, so I think the intial expense works out.

Reaper are nice, though I hardly use mine anymore. They are thinner out of the bottle than Foundry and the triads are more closely matched. To me the best Reaper sets are the ones with 6 colors in the spectrum, like the flesh and the warm-browns. You can choose one of the darker colors then jump up 2 or three tones for your mid layer then up the rest for the highlights.

I'd recommend getting a triad or three of each and try them out before really investing in either one. See which one fits your style/preferences most and then go with it.

TeutonicTexan.blogspot.com

Just mentioning since no one else has, that for years GW has published paint charts for their Citadel paints listing a shade, midtone, and highlight color for each of their paints. (A few colors have gaps.)

So they also have an "unofficial triad grouping" as you put it.

Look in some old White Dwarfs or Citadel catalogs.

I can't find that chart online. Here however is a useful article on mixing colors which you can use to prepare your own triads: link

Vallejo has a triad reference card (about postcard size). Since I hate mixing, and am a huge fan of vallejo, it's perfect, but not available on their website. I found one at a hobby shop.

In issue 5 of Over The Wire, there are two tables of triads for Vallejo Game Color and Model Color.
Over The Wire is Darkson Designs' free mag for AE-WWII and can be downloaded here:
link

You might have a look over at the Steve Dean forum and inquire there. There was recently a post on a whole bunch of different flesh triads with photos of painted examples of them. And the folks over there are really nice.

I use craft paints for my base color. I like that they tend not to be as "bright" as the GW paints. I then wash with ink or GW washes. I then go back touch up with the base color and then highlight with GW or Vallejo. I find GW and Vallejo works better than craft paints for highlighting. You think that's anal? I also black line. Now that's anal.

So I use a step plan but not a true tripartite paint process. The hardest part is finding GW paints and Vallejo paints to match my craft paints (I don't have access to other paints). The only true triad painting system I use is for faces. I went over to the local GW store to find out how they did faces. I now use bestial brown (?) and dwarf flesh. I did not like their third paint, elfin flesh I believe. I replaced that with Vellejo sand. So even though you have a triad system you may still want to match colors with other manufacturers.

Rich

Law, thanks for the pdf chart link.

Thanks for all the responses guys! I really appreciate it. Oh, some gorgeous miniatures on the blogs as well!

Sounds like in comparing one manufacturer to another it's pretty much an opinion thing…which is to be expected I suppose. I tend to like my shading/highlighting to be a bit more on the subtle side, so I guess I might lean more towards the Reaper Master Series, but I can see how you really just have to take a look at the colors from any line and see how you like their selections. That's the tough part for me, as my FLGS is 120 miles away! Of course buying new paint colors on-line is hit and miss as the color you see on your computer monitor might not really match the actual paint color. I think I might have to make the trek to my FLGS afterall. I'm sure there's a few other things I really "NEED" anyway!

Thanks for that Vallejo color-guide Lawman. Perhaps I'll just stick with my Vallejos for now, and add new triads from other manufacturers as I go- especially for browns and greens, which I use a LOT. It sounds like most of you use a mix of several different manufacturers anyway. Oh decisions decisions!

Again, thanks for all the responses…..and feel free to chime in further if you like. A lot of helpful advice and information. You gotta love TMP….Ask and Ye shall receive!

Hellchylde