"V sucked." Topic

Think about it . . .

If you are going to invade a city, country or planet, the logical thing is to infiltrate operatives way ahead of time.

That itself shows that they have diverged immensely, not just from original V, but from just about every other SF alien invasion movie or show!

I know of very few SF plots that show aliens thinking that far ahead:

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And, that alone, lends itself to a ton of very interesting plot twists and developments!

I liked last night's opening episode. It establishes an intial common theme to the old V, but has already shown the potential for a lot of refreshing differences.

Dan

Here is one:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live

C'mon guys, it wasn't that bad! I watched some of SyFy's rebroadcast of the old series, and aside from gaining a new respect for Mark Singer's stunt man capabilities, I was also reminded that they didn't take very long getting to the "V's are not nice" part either.

I'm guardedly optimistic that it will be entertaining. But I'm a pretty easy sell when it comes to TV scifi. Heck, I even liked "Space Rangers" and "Cleopatra 2525".

I'll give it a chance but so far… meh…

I just watched with my kids. No great, but not as bad as I expected either. The jury is still in sesion, your honour!

Morena Baccarin!

Morena Baccarin FTW!

The only thing good about Cleopatra 2525 was the actress playing Cleopatra. She was a looker too…

Damon.

I liked it. Hot aliens, and flying claymores. It's a great way to kill an hour.

Join the Peace Ambassador Program now!

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"If Morena Baccarin's the only reason y'all are watching the show then it says a lot about it's quality"

I think it says more about ME!!! :)

CC

"Also she lacks commanding presence, more like a mid level PR lady, than a supreme commander."

We haven't seen much of her so far, except when she is making appearances among humans. In other words, she still has to reveal what her true character is like.

If you were win over the hearts of a planet's inhabitants, wouldn't you want to appear to be less than "a supreme commander"?

So far, it plays well with what I will do when I take over the world.

Edit: I mean, what I "would" do, you know, if I was ever going to do something like that. :)

CC

I didn't watch the show (I was otherwise engaged), but I do recall the original show quite well, and I have to say, as one of those red-blooded American males apparently responsible for destroying the planet, if the lizard people are going to subvert mankind using a woman as their image consultant, they're better advised doing it using the Morena Baccarin/PR lady/naughty executive approach than the Jane Badler/I-am-lizard-hear-me-roar/older-sister-from-Hades approach. The second way's just a turn off, for some reason.

Even tho I ALWAYS like to see Firefly alums do well (Morena Baccarin and Alan Tyduk) I couldn't make it 10 minutes. It was swill. Oh, yes, everyone was pretty, but it was clear that this was trash from the get go.

While not a fan of the original, I decided to watch it and I was entertained enough to try it again next week. While I sympathize with some of the criticisms on this discussion, for me it beats reality TV or all those dancing, singing competitions.

And Morena to me was just perfect as the smiling hot image of concealed evil.

Ok guys . . .

How would YOU take over the planet?

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CC

If you're interested, I noticed today that Walmart has the DVDs of both miniseries and the TV series.

Let's just say that Morena Baccari is more likely to win the Earthlings over than Ed Asner.

I wonder how those short skirts played in Muslim nations?

This is just one big social programming event.

What the Lizards want to give us is unverisal Healthcare .

.

I stop watching most mainline TV due to the amount of social programming that they are trying to brainwash me with.

Oh and they they have already remade the Prisoner and it will be on AMC very soon. Though this one might be worth it since they did pick up some good actors.

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Gregg Easterbrook had some apt comments on this show in his TMQ column this week (which is nominally about pro football, but inevitably wanders off on tangents such as sci-fi):

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I have to agree with his central critique -- why would any advanced alien race go to so much trouble to obtain WATER??

Did anyone mentioned WATER in that new V episode?

CC

CC:

Yeah, they said they need "water, and a chemical compound easily made here" or some such bushwa.

Frankly, I have a hard time thinking that a space traveling race can't get water closer to home – capture a comet or something, guys! And the shipping costs to get water back to wherever the heck they come from? Astronomical (literally!). Maybe if they had a Stargate and a high-volume pump that they can leave on for a few weeks, but really, transporting water home in Motherships? Come on, pull the other one.

Well . . . that's what I would say if I was asking for something from a people whose planet's surface was composed of mostly water.

If I asked Saudis or North African tribes for sand, they would be more than willing to be accommodating, don't you think, believing that they have quite a deal on their hands?

Maybe that's what the new Vs are doing?

Dan

Garand 04 Nov 2009 7:27 a.m. PST:

It's all like Battlestar Galactica again!

The notable difference might be that the new Galactica pilot didn't suck? Of course I can't personally comment on the new V as I haven't seen it yet (and probably won't see it for about 1/2 year or so). The peeps over at TV.com seem to have rather liked it tho, even given their supposedly 1 to 10 scale seems really to be more like 7 to 10. Still, 9.3 where it was a minute ago isn't anything to sneer at even there. Could be it's going over better with folks who haven't seen the original and/or regular viewers than with scifi-head dorks?

You guys are paying far too much attention to frivolous things like the script and plotting.
Morena is hotter than a pistol,

If that's why you're watching, there's plenty of free, actual porn on the internet. If I want to see hot, I don't waste time seeing it with clothes on.

and the Brian Williams clone looks like a sycophantic ass. What's not to like?

If I wanted to see a sycophantic ass, I could watch network news or C-SPAN.

The notable difference might be that the new Galactica pilot didn't suck?

This is a false premise.
-Kle.

From what little 'tidbits' I've seen and heard about the NEW 'V' and SyFy's re-running the ORIGINAL 'V' tv movies, followed by the short-lived tv series….(last weekend)…

There are things I like about both series and some I didn't care for about both…and some that just simply were bad acting, writing, science, plot or whatever….

But at least somebody is TRYING….

I mean…look at the 're-imagined' BSG or 'Star Trek'….for examples. Some folks RAVED about it, some HATED it….(from both 'newby' and 'traditionalist' standpoints)…

Some shows take time to….'find their audience'…and it depends on time-slots, what other shows they are up against….and how the networks 'hype' (or not) the show.

My own personal case in point…'Firefly'….and how FOX put the SECOND episode 'first' instead of the two-hour 'pilot' or opening episode that put things into place…

and because it didn't get the best slot(s) advertising and was moved around…it didn't become popular until it was already CANCELLED!!! IMHO though we did get a MOVIE…(also not shown in theaters/promo'd very much/long!!!)

I LOVED that show/series/movie!!!!

But it's all about the MONEY and the NUMBERS…more folks watching brings more sponsors and advertising bucks, etc so if they don't GRAB you right outta the gate….bye-bye!

And it's killed a lot of well-written and critically acclaimed shows…regular and sci-fi….while other 'drek' that I wouldn't bother turning the TV on for…can run for season after season after season….'Wiggle and jiggle' and all that….gratuitous sex, violence and BLOOD…(and that's just the commercials!)

I kinda got lost on 'Galactica' because of the 'half-season' thingies….(which syfy and others are now doing more of)…but on the other tentacle…they only show the re-runs once and then fill in other half with another show of 12 episodes and one re-run or so…(like A&E, etc) Burn Notice, The Closer, Saving Grace, Hawthorne, Deep Blue and so on….

But ya pays yer sat/cable bills and takes your chances…or wait until the 'whole' series/season comes out on DVD/Blu-ray and with all the Bonus features…and decide for yourself with your 'purchasing power'…

Slishfully,
Sgt DWW-btod

Agreed. Every implausibe, cliched, sophomoric plot element you can imagine was there. I won't watch again.

Yep, universal healthcare, yer bitter cuz your dad left – no I'm bitter cuz you're a cop who's never around, I mean come on.

DWW I really think this is different than say the newer BSG or Star Trek. You're always going to have hold outs who think change is bad, but this was just really horrible production, writing and presentation.

Agreed it is a bit cliched….but I'd rather see these than the countless 'reality' shows.

Plus, plenty of shows have a pilot that was a bit contrived. Many times the network forces that before the show can even gain ground.

Hopefully, the writers smarten things up as they go.

I have hope!

A better world is possible!!!
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CC

Well I hated the new BSG and while the new Star Trek was okay I did not like them changing the Star Trek Universe.

On hoping that the Hollywood writers changing I would say do not count on it.

Dude, what's your problem?

Here's a link for ya.

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Mithmee, that kind of talk doesn't help the cause.

Hexxenhammer, love the link.

CC

Feel free to direct anyone you think needs it to the link, CC.

Anyway, interspecies marriage is already covered by the original series with Freddy Kreuger AND in the new series in the first episode.

In both, the aliens are male. Why are the aliens always stealing our fine human sisters?

Actually, the young blonde Visitor seems destined to hook up with the high school kid.

So, I think it is going both ways, not just male Visitors with our women.

CC

I expected more from you, CC.

The answer, of course, is "Mars needs women."

;)

But you're right. Teenage boys will anything.

"Dude, she's a lizard."

"Yeah, but she puts out."

"I expected more from you, CC."

LOL.

CC

"On hoping that the Hollywood writers changing I would say do not count on it."

""

How the hell is that comment anti-Semitic?

Anyway, please don't answer. I'm just disappointed that you guys would continue turning this into a political and social debate.

C'mon guys. This is about SciFi and how it may relate to gaming. That's the stuff that binds us. And many of us come here to reinforce that common bond. Don't ruin this for us and have this thread pulled simply because you guys can't take your arguments offline.

Geez.

Dan

PS. Hexxenhammer, I must say that you are absolutely right. More people need to be referred to that other thread:
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Condottiere,

I know. I understand completely. There are times when it's really, really hard for me not to take the bait.

It really tests my self control when I read comments that go political. The urge to fall into the traps (from either side) is very strong, even when I sympathize with their cause(s). But, at the same time, I don't want ya'll to suffer through my rants on views of that sort.

Hang in there.

Thanks.

Dan
PS. Hey. And if/when I step out of line and start going political, please tell me so. Ok? I also need the occasional reminder, when I go too far to the right. :)

Kyoteblue,

And remind me when I step out of bounds too. You know, more or less, what my views are. But, if I start up like that on a gaming board, please keep me in line, ok?

I need all the help I can get these days.

CC

Worth knowing:

Just because writers write stories where stuff happens it doesn't mean the writers want that to happen in real life. Just because writers have characters saying and thinking and behaving certain ways, it doesn't mean the writers say and think and do those things themselves. They are writing, inventing, creating, imagining; it is what they are paid to do.

If a writer wrote a story about World War two from the German perspective and made one of the Nazi characters actually a nice guy, would you accuse the writer of being a Nazi? Or would you recognise the work for what it is: Fiction?

Sometimes fiction is just fiction. not everything has a "message." Similarly, not everything is a reflection of real life Politics ( I could say "get over yourselves" to those that think it is). I saw similar balony said about Batlestar Galactica. Some people just read too much into things. It's just a story. In this case one about alien invasion and how they take over. Nothing more.

hexxenhammer – I got 15mm now dood email me and let's chat – robofan5 (AT) gmail.com

…no we won't be doing any 15mm V scenarios ;)

Sweet, Grabula. I've got my tanks painted but my doods are as yet mostly unpainted.

I'm working on some cool terrain at the moment TMP link

and I got some of the Pelagic Domnate Zarks from khurasan. I've got enough to put together a small force and plan on purchasing more real soon.

Finally I wrote a set of rules I think are going to be fun to play but they're going to need some playtesting! I'll send them to you when you email me so you can take a look.

Well I at least do not go around and call someone anti-semitic using a comment that had nothing to do with that.

Yes, I am not politically correct and never will be.

Or am I afraid to talked about the things that will affect me or this country. Plus I do not have access to the Blue Fez.

Weaked will I am not but I rather watch TV that is not trying to social program me.

Hollywood has shown that it cannot do a decent remake of anything and have destroyed quite a few shows by making remakes.

LOL At previous comments . . . Just saw the first episode and have soem thoughts I'd share. NO overall commets on the series though, just raising stuff to talk about.

Firstly, the infiltration aspect. Makes for some good plotlines ( The scene between Elizabeth the FBI agent and her boss discussing what her partner 'might' ahve been doing was a well-done piece of writing in the paranoia genre ), but it make slittle sense; If you have a conspiracy set in place and a society that loses thousands of people and tonnes of resources every year without trace, then why suddenly turn up to do it openly and risk everything? It feels like either someone tried to shoehorn in War ON TError references to catch the public herd mind ( About on a par with AIDS references in a ROMEO & JULIET performance ), or the original V had sat on the shelf next to Roy Thinnes' THE INVADERS and cross fertilised.

The 'traitors' are an interesting touch, makes the V llok more like a society of individuals than a conglomerate race like 1940s pulp SF BEMS. That said, there are problems there as well from the science side of things . . . But no resistance can succeed without them, is partly the point. And it's a cute idea of having Americans become the 'terrorists" as well.

Seeing the two apsects of the Church was a relatively bold idea; Both as pillar of the establishment and champion of the people/underground movement ( Which, if you really understand the fish symbol, is how Christianity started ). I do wonder how much of this was supported by the American Catholic church as a PR stunt, and how much is simply the writers noticing the recent Jesuit-led Vatican conferences and discussion of SETI and xenobiology recently.

Water. Given that Jupiter turned out to be drier than first thought, and oxygen is not as common in the universe as thought originally, the cover story there is a little less leaky, but it still is a sieve. I note that they add '. . . and another element which we wish to trade for.', which, given that many elements are not found in spcae so readily but are indeed locked into planetary crusts this is a more than adequate piece of handwavium. As for the compatability issue – well, I quote form a favourite story of the 1940s that has since turned out accurate on this point -
"There are fortynine amino acids that are biologically active -"
" Thirtyeight."
"There are fortynine amino acids that are biologically active. Shut up. These make up all the proteins used in living beings . . . "*

( Actually, there are now believed to be about 120 AAcids that might be used by living creatures, and any one biota might use about 80 or so ) So, odds are that any random two ecologies that develop on different worlds might have some ability to consuem and digest the other on a purely AAcid baiss. In any case, an advanced technology could process alien protein into a non-toxic form by isolating those necessary AAcids into synthetic proetins as well – So, I'm not that concerened about the food thing. Diseases are another level of complexity though and forget interbreeding completely.

The response to the aliens is a touch more realistic in the latest series – the first one seemed to have too much sudden acceptance over very little generosity, this one has protests and acceptance equally mixed. The format change of what the V are doing to 'help' does conflict with Sturgeon's Law of SF plot; "Anything currently in headlines is not a good topic for Good SF – When major TV personalities sign off with 'Don't Pollute, folks!' no-one in the genre should be writing pollution stories." This probably also makes the whole terror/conspiracy plot look tacky as well.

Morena Baccarin is getting a reputation of being a John Locke ( i.e., possessing the abilty to f&%* up your ) on an interstellar, if not intergalactic scale thanks to this and STARGATE SG1, as well as being the cool, calculating and somewhat emotionless goddess figure ( I have heard tell of here stage performance – Give her the right role, she is FAR from wooden ). . . who can make ANY hairstyle look hot! Casting Alan Tudyk as the bumbling FBI agent also worked – especially when he turns up in the assualt on the resistance meeting, eyes blazing and tries to take his partner's carotids out! Spine-chilling and shows that his acting range is wider than we thought . . .

so. maybe not great, but far from terrible. Mediocre in parts, I will say, but a sterling show that does stand up well to its predecessor . . . And even the joke about INDEPENDENCE DAY and ripoffs shows the writers are pretty aware and it's possible that network execs may have done soem damage to the final product.

[Sarcasm mode ON]
Then again, one point they make in the series is that something or someone that looks attractive might turn out to be unpleasant in its actions and motivations, and that pictures cannot be trusted.

That would not go down well with the crowd on this website, now would it? :) But I'm sure the bulk of the American public would acceot it as truth, gievn the way they have chosen politicians for the last 50 years . . . Wait.

[Sarcasm mode OFF]

*"Happy Ending" by Kuttner and Moore, 1947. Soory not to have given the ref earlier.