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"Am I being too fussy...." Topic


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Action Log

03 Nov 2009 7:12 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Am I being to fussy...." to "Am I being too fussy...."

1,226 hits since 3 Nov 2009
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Simon Kidd Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 1:06 a.m. PST

Last night I spent some time putting together a box of Victrix French, filled with enthusiam.

We'll I'm sorry I just can't do it, I have limtied time and would rather spend it painting.

So where to go from here ?

I have started 1811 armies, my French are largly Foundry and Offensive but Foundry are a little bit smaller than others.

i like the look of the Perry rang but it is so limited in use or am I being to fussy ? I could get perry figures and just do 1812 onwards or just continue as I am.

Or I could go fro Front Rank or another manufacturer.

Any help suggestions ?

I have around 12 figures to paint before I need to re-stock.


Cheers in adbvance

Maxshadow Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 2:14 a.m. PST

I'm sorry Simon I don't get how your being fussy.
Maybe someone needs to explain it to me slowly using small words. :0P
regards
Max

Keraunos Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 2:27 a.m. PST

we are starting a sharp practice campaign – multi player, one group per player and you try to grow your command.

the idea is using perry / vitrix plastics, so the entry fee is minimal, and most of the club can join in.

I took one look at those separate arms, and went Front Rank and lead.

For the same price, I got exactly the figures I neeed, and no more (no unpainteds in the pile), I have 10 minutes cleaning the lot up, and started painting.

with assembling arms, I would still be there, wondering about the angles of the limbs…

Its not you, its them…

Roger the Cabin Boy Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 2:32 a.m. PST

We'll I'm sorry I just can't do it, I have limited time and would rather spend it painting.

You are not alone. I'd rather spend extra money on single-piece castings.

Simon Kidd Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 2:40 a.m. PST

Ah fussy sorry, what I mean is Perry figures look by far the best, however they are all from 1812 onwards ( with a few eceptions ) especially the French. So is it overlly fussy not using them for <1812 ?

I am painting up my forces for the lassale rules. They are all in 24 figure battalions, i like a little variety in my units but not too much.

Cheers all

Keraunos Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 2:55 a.m. PST

it depends. 1812 spanish would be wrong for 1811.

but a shako is a shako…

so it depens on which units you are looking at, really, as to how much of the uniform detail has altered over that particular christmas.

some of us remember when every figure that wasn't british was an airfix frenchman in a shako, and we had to paint the coats a different colour to tell them apart. The joy when Esci produced Austrians with firemans hats…

Maxshadow Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 3:01 a.m. PST

In that case, no your not Simon. Because we all have a small historical accuracy alarm inside us that needs to be kept in the green. If you ignore it then you'll only go back later and the buy correctly uniformed replacements or, even worse build two french armies. And that way lies madness.
Mine is of a very low sensitivity but still has cost me money before.
Max

Theword03 Nov 2009 3:12 a.m. PST

I have to agree about not wanting to put the minis together on top of painting and basing.

I'm only going to buy a pack or two of these guys to make a couple of small (3-4 figs) dioramas for display purposes. If I ever to Naps in 28mm for gaming I'll lead to avoid having to put them together.

TW.

Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 3:24 a.m. PST

Simon,
Like you I am frustrated by the fact that I think that the Perry figures are absolutely the best but my armies are pre-1812 and they are not. Of course some figures can be used (staff, some cavalry, infantry and artillery in greatcoats, Guard Grenadiers as their line equivalents etc.). I have also taken to converting figures by adding coattails and exposed waistcoats etc with Greenstuff (pre 1812 leger were easy as you just need to swap the heads on Guard Chasseurs a Pied and shorten the coat tails). However, from what you say, this is probably too much of a solution. Otherwise all you can do is pray that the Perrys will produce a suitable figure at some point that could be used as a pre-1812 fusilier. If not, keep looking. Companion, Eureka…….

Caliban Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 3:38 a.m. PST

I agree with the comments about putting them together, especially with the numbers I tend to work with. Painting time is limited, so increasing it just to put the figures together is unattractive to me. I can see how others would like it, though; each to their own and all that.

Having said this, the plastics would be a cheap and easy way to make casualty bases for an otherwise metal army; I'm going to do this for ancients 25mm (Romans).

Personal logo Hazkal Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 4:00 a.m. PST

Hmm, I find it odd that so many people don't like the multi-partness of kits. As a GW émigré I revel in putting miniatures together, knowing that my fellows are different from everyone else's. I especially enjoy that mould lines are trivial to remove, instead of taking a file, a lesson in tedium and a lungful of white metal dust.

That said, there is a depth of texture to metals that a lot of plastics lack, though I contest the claim of a lack of detail. Also, if you're low on time then painting might be a priority.

Go with what you like, to the level of accuracy you feel appropriate. As a newbie without opponents, I'm starting with 1807 to 1812 French because I see them as being the most useful. At the moment I don't know enough to care if there are small anachronisms, I'll ignore or iron them out if I find them.

christot03 Nov 2009 4:25 a.m. PST

I'm not totally averse to putting figures together, and I don't find the Perry plasics a chore at all, (put together a box takes about 2 hours, no big deal). However, Victrix are another kettle of fish. More like 4 or 5 hours to prepare a unit. After having done a couple of btns (36 figs) I don't think I'll be doing any more. I also find the plastic Victrix uses a little more brittle than the more bendy Perry stuff and more likely to break.

Timmo uk Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 4:54 a.m. PST

I've no interest in assembling figures. Painting takes enough time as it is without increasing the workload for less good figures (than metal).

As it is I work in 18mm for my Naps and am happy to mix pre 1812 and 1812 uniforms. Only you can decide how much you are bothered by that but my own thought was to stick with the figures you like the most as that's where the painting enjoyment will come. If you stick with lots in coats you solve a small part of the issue.

My own thought is that inspite of the Stove pipe shako option for the British I doubt that the Perrys will back date their French to pre 1812. I hope I'm wrong but by the time they get there I suspect they'll be onto a new period and bored of Naps.

Footslogger03 Nov 2009 5:36 a.m. PST

No, I don't think you're being too fussy. These things (assembly v painting and uniform accuracy) are both important.

I think the advent of 28mm plastics has put the hobby into transition. In one sense, we've never had it do good, all that choice of scales, rules, metal and plastic, but the plastic stuff is still so new it's not yet giving us the choices we'd like. It'll come. The answers may yet come from other firms dipping their toes in the lake of plastic. Hat's latest (French lights) are better than their first tranche of El Cid figures and they have a track record of churning out huge numbers of sets. And I'd love it if Zvesda had a go.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 5:57 a.m. PST

I to was put of by victrix's many manye parts, and it was a pain puting them togeather with superglue.

What I did was I put them togeather slowly with regular glue.

What I did was this.

Primed french perry while waything for the primer to dry I glued on all the 16 arms on victrix.

Then I started to paint the french, and while I waited for the trousers and jackets to try I glued on all the heads.
Then I finished the french and primed more french, and again while I waited for the primer to dry I finished the victrix figs.

By the time I had painted my french, the glue was dry on the british victrix, and I could prime them, while doing so I started work on putting the next 16 victrix togeather, that way I glued them togeather in my down time. And no time was waisted.

OldGrenadier at work03 Nov 2009 6:37 a.m. PST

Even though I enjoy assembling figures, I don't think you're being fussy at all. To each his own. I love painting SYW but loath painting ACW's. If there was a line of prepainted ACW figs I'd be on it like stink on poo. If it's something you just don't enjoy, then you're not fussy.

M C LeSingeDew03 Nov 2009 6:44 a.m. PST

Not fussy at all.

It's difficult enough to find time and energy to paint up an army. All the more so when each figure has to be assembled first.

Of course some folks quite like assembling figures and I mean them no ill.

Just not my thing.

Defiant Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 6:44 a.m. PST

great for animation, but time intensive it seems ?

mashroomca Inactive Member03 Nov 2009 6:49 a.m. PST

as to using post 1812 uniform for use in 1811, I say go for it, if you like the perrys figures so be it. It is only a miniature game after all.

Cheers

Personal logo ArchiducCharles Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 7:15 a.m. PST

I like both Offensive miniatures and Foundry, I see nothing wrong continuing using those two ranges.

I wouldn't use the Perrys if you're doing 1811; you'll come to regret it one day, believe me. Having said that, you can still use Perrys for Officers and some other stuff, that's what I do; my French army is mostly Foundry with some Offensive and most of my officers are Perrys.

My advice; go for a range you like, while still respecting your period of choice.

christot03 Nov 2009 7:40 a.m. PST

Charles gives good advice, the salient point seems to be that you have doubts about the 1812+ Perrys. How will you feel about those doubts a couple of years down the line?

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 8:09 a.m. PST

The Wargame Holiday Centre in the UK mixes all manner of French uniforms and figure ranges in its huge collection of Napoleonic miniatures. If it works for them, then why not for you as well?

I game the period up to 1807 when the French wore bicorns and the habit longue (i.e. not the shorter Bardin tunic and the shako). If I needed a few more battalions to play a game, I would have no problem using Bardin-attired French in said game.

As for assembling plastic figures: I probably won't do it for the same reasons you mention -- I have limited time available for the hobby and I don't want to spend it assembling figures. I'll spend the extra dollars on the lead, which are easier to prepare for painting. I may buy a box or two of the Victrix early French in bicorns, but more out of a sense of curiosity than for a desire to actually use them in a game.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 8:14 a.m. PST

I also use 72-figure French battalions and the prospect of assembling all of those figures would make my head explode.

forrester03 Nov 2009 12:17 p.m. PST

The Victrix figures are nice but you can run out of steam with assembling them--sooner or later even they run out of possibilities.Fortunately I am looking at skirmishes not big battles.
I am selectively fussy.I will permit some artistic licence to enable me to use Perry French figures in Spain--because it was at least possible--but baulk at 1815 Belgic shakoes for the British.
Everyone's priorities are different.Its not a hanging matter.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 2:07 p.m. PST

You victrix look so good, I say stick with it, I doubt you'll finder better looking 28mm fig for the peninsular war

JCBJCB03 Nov 2009 3:21 p.m. PST

I love the plastic Perry stuff, and am growing to enjoy building some of the plastic ancients sets. I never get the same barbarian twice, and you can't really beat that, can you?

That said, I think there's some weird belief that the entire French army magically transformed into Bardin uniforms at the exact same time, regardless of where in the world they were. Nonsense. Some units got the uniforms earlier or later, and some units would have been issued new uniforms in penny-packets – i.e., the depot battalion and its drafts may have been uniformed in Bardin, while the field battalion wasn't changed over until a bit later.

So why not have a little mixture of uniforms, and portray a French army in the midst of the changeover?

What was it that Suchet (I think) wrote in 1809? "At last the medley is over. There are no more hats, no more white coats." 1809!!!

Personal logo ArchiducCharles Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2009 3:25 p.m. PST

Well, that works if you're doing 1813. For 1811, I seriously doubt you'd see French in Bardin uniforms!

kabrank04 Nov 2009 4:03 a.m. PST

Hi All

Please note that Perry have 28mm British infantry in the works.

They will allow Peninsular or Waterloo use as there will be optional heads etc

Go Here

link

It may pay to be patient.

Also Victrex 54mm British are looking very tempting for Skirmish use! and at a price you can afford.

Go Here

link

Enjoy

kabrank04 Nov 2009 4:09 a.m. PST

Hi All

On the Perry link you need to select under Range the "Plastics Work Bench"

Sorry

Basilhare Inactive Member04 Nov 2009 4:28 a.m. PST

"You are not alone. I'd rather spend extra money on single-piece castings."

Amen, amen, amen! I too tried plastics and found them fiddly and not worth fooling with…quickly went back to metal figs…

L-R: Foundry – Perry Plastic – Front Rank – Perry Plastic
picture

Foundry at the far left of the pic…mounted with a penny under the fig…Foundry are definetly a bit smaller but still work, IMHO, if kept within their own units…not a huge deal…I prefer Front Rank to any other line…clean figs…order what you want, in whatever quantity you want….the last metal Perry's I received had loads of flash..

Sir Sidney Ruff Diamond04 Nov 2009 4:44 a.m. PST

I'm with you on the Victrix, the assembly put me off. The few I finished and painted look great however, but I'd sooner paint than assemble, personal preference. The Perry French are OK as 90% only need a backpack glued on and you're done.

Personally I'd stick with Foundry especially if you are UK based and buy the unit/army deals in the sales (on now). There is scale creep in Foundry (and other manufacturers) the later (1812+) French being bigger than the earlier (1809) French. BUT the new 1806 range is the biggest of the lot. I find the Foundry Austrians a bit small compared to the 1809 French so I've built their bases up a bit! I'd recommend the Foundry Bavarians too.

As an alternative what about Sash & Saber? If you've got a lot of Foundry French in 1809 uniform they should fit in. They do Austrians and Russians too (though not a full range yet).

And then there's Old Glory, the 2nd editions look good.

Check Scott's and Lord Ashram's sites for pics of S&S and OG (always worth looking at Scott's painting for inspiration).
link
link

Arkoudaki Inactive Member04 Nov 2009 5:01 a.m. PST

No, you aren't being too fussy at all. If you want a proper French army for pre-1812 campaigns then you need the right uniforms and such.

The Perry figures, while beautiful creations (and I really like their plastic range), are not suitable for the pre-1812 period as they are all attired in the post-1812 changes. That said, you could readily use pre-1812 figs for post-1812 campaigns, as the uniform changes took forever to implement, especially in the Peninsula conflict.

So what are your options:

(1) Option One: Use the old Foundry figs done by the evil Perry Twins. They are still very nice but as you mentioned a bit too small to mix in with what you already have.

Like many out there, I have loads of Foundry French (mine are from the days they sold them as single figures!) and don't want to get rid of them. I keep mine in separate units, as otherwise they don't blend with the styles and sizes of figs produced today. It works for me!

(2) Option Two: Use the Victrix plastic French…hmmmm…I really like their figures as a concept but the execution isn't quite there. As cited many times before on TMP and elsewhere, there have been production problems with the figs. Victrix is clearly getting better at this but the problem of sink holes in the figs as well as the brittle quality of the plastic used still creates unnecessary problems that cause people to moan (me included). I have several boxes of Victrix sitting by the side…as I don't have the patience to work on them at present. I do however sincerely hope that Victrix will sort these basic production problems out soon, as they do offer a nice product. Moreover, they cover the pre-1812 period.

Also, in terms of fig quality, I have seen some great paintjobs on Victrix figs – take a look Artmaster.

artmasterstudio.co.uk

That said, getting your Victrix figures to the painting stage is a labor of love. I don't mind the putting together at all…it is the cleaning of flash and mold lines on the plastic that gets me. As others have attested, this makes putting them together a real chore. I am also not completely convinced by the choice of poses offered. Yes, you get a lot of variety in Victrix boxes but not all the poses really work (look natural).

(3) Option Three: Use the Perry range…well, this also doesn't work for the pre-1812 period…wrong uniforms and such. Yes, you can take the occasional fig and use them but in the main it doesn't work. I have a few battalions of their plastic and metal French (in post-1812 uniform) and now some cavalry (Cuirassiers, Lancers, Carabiniers [Carabiniers can be used from 1810-15]) and intend to use them for later campaigns…but for pre-1812 it doesn't work. I am however looking forward to their French Hussars, as these promise to cut across a number of periods. And less we forget, they also have the British Inf for 1808-15 (Kabrank, no disrespect, but these have been out for ages…) which you can make into two periods (different shakos and coat tails). I just wish the Perry's would do this with all their plastic releases. One can only hope.

Perhaps the answer is too petition the Perry's to do pre-1812 figs…LOL.

(4) Option Four: Just sit tight and wait to see what comes out…Victrix, the Perry's, and other manufgs are constantly producing new figs just sit, wait, and watch.

In the meantime, you could paint up a bunch of British Inf in stovepipe shakos and long coattails for the Peninsula period, like I am currently doing. I have around 200 Perry plastic figs on the production line currently having all mold lines removed, musket holes drilled, hands and other items rescribed or cleaned up, some bayonets scabbards removed and replaced by plastic, etc. etc… Yes, I am being really AR on this project but if it is worth doing it is worth doing it right.

And in closing, that is the point of this response. You have to enjoy what you are making, even when it seems tedious to the extreme! I enjoy putting the figs together and doing all the prep work on them, as when they are painted (my wife is really pushing me on that front) they will look as I want them too…which is as lifelike as possible.

So while others may opt for using Orcs and French Fusiliers, I chose to be fussy. To each his/her own I say. So be fussy!

Arkoudaki Inactive Member04 Nov 2009 5:11 a.m. PST

PS I didn't include Old Glory as an option as even their 2nd gen figures in my opinion aren't too great. Yes, I know, you get a load of them in the bag and the price (as a member of the OG Army) isn't bad at all…but the quality of the figs doesn't even come close to Foundry…let alone the Perry's new stuff.

Another oversight was using Front Rank figs (Option Five?). That said, I really don't like the poses too much. The figures are nicely done (well cast and such) and cover a good range but…well…something about them just doesn't work for me.

However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So to each his/her own!

kabrank04 Nov 2009 8:12 a.m. PST

Hi Arkoudaki

No problem. Been working on other periods for a year or so and see what I have missed!!

Simon Kidd Inactive Member04 Nov 2009 12:47 p.m. PST

Thanks all you confirmed my gut feeling that I would never be comfortable with using 1812 figures.

My liking for 1811 is the peninsula war can go either way, both majot engagements could go either way and both sides use foreign allies so you never get bored painting the same figures.

So I am going to finish the Foundry unit I am on at the moment and in the meantime order a gun battery and 1 legre regiment from front rank to see how they go. If I dont like them I can always sell them. but the guns and crews will not stick out too badly with other figures.

Thanks again all…….

Arkoudaki Inactive Member04 Nov 2009 1:23 p.m. PST

The new Front Rank guns and limbers do like nice. So at the very least you will have some nice equipment. That said, the Perry's are releasing a variety of artillery bits and bobs…temptation is the death of us all.

Oh, and on top of that, I just learned today via TMP that Great War Miniatures (Dave Andrews and Aly Morrison, GW and WGF) will be coming out with a range of Crimean figs in 28mm…ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….will these evil people ever stop tempting me!

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP04 Nov 2009 1:35 p.m. PST

I've gotten in the grove on putting the victrix togeather now,

First both arms, then let the glue dry then head and knapsak.

16 figs take mabye 20 minutes to do in total, not a lot,

Easly doble while painting or waiting for primer to dry

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