| green beanie | 01 Nov 2009 6:54 p.m. PST |
did any Panzer IV G's fight in either North Africa or Tunisia with either the Afrika Korps or 5th Panzer Army? |
aecurtis  | 01 Nov 2009 7:02 p.m. PST |
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| Jovian1 | 01 Nov 2009 9:24 p.m. PST |
In case you didn't want to read that the short answer is yes. |
| Paul Hurst | 02 Nov 2009 2:42 a.m. PST |
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| Luisito | 02 Nov 2009 5:27 a.m. PST |
Pz IV F2 was in north africa but not Pz IV G |
| Ditto Tango 2 1 | 02 Nov 2009 6:07 a.m. PST |
but not Pz IV G In Tunisia, though, there's a number of pretty well known pics of Gs.
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Tim |
| Martin Rapier | 02 Nov 2009 7:21 a.m. PST |
Yes, Gs in Tunisia. F2s at Gazala with no ammo;-) |
| BF Mark | 02 Nov 2009 8:37 a.m. PST |
The 10th Panzer Division in Tunisia had mostly Gs. I think I can get the exact amount from the illustrated history of the division if you need that. Mark |
| aecurtis | 02 Nov 2009 9:24 a.m. PST |
What is an F2? What is an F-Umbau? What is a G? You know where I'm going… |
| jameshammyhamilton | 02 Nov 2009 9:32 a.m. PST |
But if you listen to Battlefront you will find that Tunisia is infact in Africa (actually it really is but most gamers refer to Africa to mean Libya and Egypt in WWII terms). There were some Panzer IV 'specials' (Pz IV F2) that fought in the desert campaign but I am fairly sure that no Gs made it outside Tunisia. |
| christot | 02 Nov 2009 9:34 a.m. PST |
"most gamers refer to Africa to mean Libya and Egypt in WWII terms" I don't |
| aecurtis | 02 Nov 2009 9:49 a.m. PST |
Folks, you are making distinctions where none existed. Please see Doyle and Jentz, pp.7-8, under "Official Designations", here: link If "F2s" or "Panzer IV (Specials)" were present, then Gs were present. It's the same tank. The waters are muddied by changes in designation, all sorted by the summer of '42. …as also described in the first link I posted, if anyone had read it. Allen |
| darthfozzywig | 02 Nov 2009 10:06 a.m. PST |
We assumed it was another Zardoz link. |
| Mobius | 02 Nov 2009 10:08 a.m. PST |
Maybe some are counting the F2/G with the 75mm/L43 together. The G's with the 75mm/L48s as authentic "G" or a different model. |
| aecurtis | 02 Nov 2009 10:28 a.m. PST |
If you want to make *that* distinction, the designation for the former F2s and subsequent Gs was Sd.Kfz. 161/1. Later (March '43 onwards) Gs and Hs with the L/48 gun were Sd.Kfz. 161/2. This is why Jentz's research in the German archives is important. It shows us what the Germans themselves called their equipment, and what distincitons *they* made. Allen |
| Jovian1 | 02 Nov 2009 10:42 a.m. PST |
Indeed, if you had read the entire link, you would have understood – so the short answer was still – YES. They were there. |
| Ditto Tango 2 1 | 02 Nov 2009 1:27 p.m. PST |
"F2s" or "Panzer IV (Specials)" were present, then Gs were present. It's the same tank. F2 had the L43 with single baffle, two front view ports and two side view ports. G had the L43 with double baffle, only one front port and the two side view ports deleted. Initial models had the smoke dischargers. <shrug> Senger and Etterlin used the designations, so that's good enough for me. "Ausf" (forget the whole German term) is a German as you can get.
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Tim |
| Martin Rapier | 02 Nov 2009 1:53 p.m. PST |
"F2 had the L43 with single baffle, two front view ports and two side view ports. G had the L43 with double baffle, only one front port and the two side view ports deleted. Initial models had the smoke dischargers" Yes. Perhaps we should just designate them kurz and lang like the Germans did? Or blame Airfix. |
| aecurtis | 02 Nov 2009 3:44 p.m. PST |
"Senger and Etterlin used the designations…" You've never had a general officer get a little foggy on you, or believe something based on what he was told after the fact, rather than what he should have known himself? If not, the Canadian Forces are blessed, indeed!  Allen |
