"Ok guys, SF troopers mounted on horses " Topic

I'm going to ask – why horses?

In several Traveller add-ons, there were other animals that had been transported to colony worlds for the use of the locals and were far more useful; Dwarf elephants like the Maltese variety for heavy labour and draft, like a water buffalo but with front-end loader capacity. Water buffalo, of course, but also gene-revived species for the same purposes in different environments.

In the ANALOG serialised novel "Shootout At The Nokai Corral"* by Rajnar Vajra, a lot of animals have been modified to act as mounts in a western-style environment, including zebras, rhinos and bears. While horses are obvious, I would vote for other animals as well.

*Yes, sounds like the old Bat Masterson piece Horace Gold railed against: however, being Vajra, he bent the story around so that everything was logical and worked perfectly in a purely SF milieu.

Why not? . Note we don't ride rhinos here, so I'm not sure why we'd ride them on another planet.

Riding horses allows a nice twist on a familiar subject, which I think is what the market for sci fi wargaming mostly wants. That's why everyone wants mortars and crewed heavy weapons for sci fi skirmishing, though you'd think that at least the more advanced races would have found better firepower solutions. I'll probably be bending to popular request soon and making these for the garn, and would like to for the felids too, though the sculptor is busy.

Triathlete2000,

LOL. If this is going to be your choice for a rider . . .

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. . . then these should be their mounts:

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CC

WELL FOR RIDERS, i would deffo go for the individualistic look in clothing, headgear, footwear, equipment. had some riders wearing with military kit, too.

for EARTH imported mounts (brought as frozen embreyos) i would go for not just horses, but zebras, grizzly and polar bear, moose, midget elephants, camels, water buffalo, rein deer, etc. again with the riding tack being provided by the individual owner, i would look for a real sense of variety. the types of mount would be largely determined by the area colonized.

sorry, i cannot buy into futuristic knights on living barded mounts, or cyborg mounts, or robot mounts, armed with power or laser lances, swords, etc. too expensive, too high tech, and too obsolete. the average off world BOER commando would blow SIR STUPID out of his saddle long before the knight was a close up threat.

riding, draft, or work animals would be used transport because of availability, reliability, cost, ease of replacement. they would be used as transport for patrolling, riding to or from a battle, or possibly for pursuit of a defeated and scattered enemy infantry force, NOT FOR MOUNTED COMBAT!

and contrary to popular belief, horses used for dressage or modified dressage (riot control) require a lot of training, and are high maintenance critters, so your average colonial rider would be sitting astride his normal mode of transport, and not a trained warhorse.

DAWGIE

Khurasan: "Note we don't ride rhinos here, so I'm not sure why we'd ride them on another planet."

I thought every army on earth had war rhinos:

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CC

Actually I'd suggest this as a mount for Tom's fearsome warrior:

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Jon,

That is pretty good, but I was thinking something more along the lines of this.

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or this

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And I have found what your next alien monster should be.

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Tom. I had asked you not to reveal the duckidile yet!!!!!

The Holnist look wold be quite cool for your insurgents. Semi uniformed, caps as pictured along with wool hats and a few greatcoats. Poses that indicate weapons are used while mounted as they frequently were in the Postman otherwise they turn into mounted infantry and won't see much time on the table top after the inital shots are fired. You would need dismounted variants but I am sure those are already planned.

I could see a use for horses on frontier planets. It would depend largely on how you view space travel. Would a colony ship arrive with factories to make everything you need and plenty of spare parts? Could you count on some space age version of Fedex or UPS to deliver what you need? Does your colony ship have the capacity to lay down extensive road networks? Early generations of colonists might prefer the horse as a renewable resource.

Actually dragon gunner under the right circumstances mounted cavalry can and does fight with some effectiveness in battle. Cossacks fought in WWII and there was a very large cavalry force in the Red Army called the konarmiya which fought mounted and could crush its foes (although if course not in setpiece battle!). I may do riders shooting, and may even do some with some sort of SF version of a sabre.

the average off world BOER commando would blow SIR STUPID out of his saddle long before the knight was a close up threat.

I don't know that seems to be kind of funny to me. Kind of like that wild west outlaw that wore the helmet and body armour.

Also Rifts used horses just as much as anything else.

Forget horses!

Have them ride Tardigrades!

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CC

Don't fight the hypo! To paraphrase Bob Evans, "duh horse stays in duh pickshuh!" . The question is all about what to put on the horse. I'm still totally open to suggestions, BTW.

"The question is all about what to put on the horse"

Well, that's obvious . . .

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CC

Yup, wargamers getting THAT on a horse would be science fiction, all right.

But, you have to admit, she WAS quite the trooper!

CC

I always thought these guys looked pretty cool:

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The first few photos show men of the Portuguese 1st Cavalry Group (aka Dragões de Angola) during the African colonial wars. It made sense because large parts of the countryside of Angola were inaccessible beyond the few roads, and the cavalry could go places where vehicles couldn't. It worked so well that the Rhodesians copied the idea and made the Gray's Scouts.

I guess that's a similar look to the Holnists. If you added a few pieces of high-tech gear and futuristic weapons, you could have a pretty good sci-fi unit for use in rugged terrain. That would also be fun to see in 28mm, too.

Well, I'd love to see something like the Tallarn rough-riders in 15mm. Something like the US Cavalry or the Roughriders would also be cool. Simple fatigues, soft hats, and lots of gear on the horse. Oh, and separate mounts and riders.

Give them short weapons like the FAMAS or an M4 (or your futuristic equivalent). I can still see a use for a melee weapon on a horse, but you could leave it in the scabbard.

Anyone that thinks a horse is low-maintenance because it isn't trained as a warhorse is mistaken. They require at least an hour of attention every day, usually closer to two if they've been working.

They are worth the maintenance though because as MeroMero mentioned, the Rhodesians got great use out of them in cavalry units. They can go where vehicles often can't, they are quieter, and vehicles can't get petrol from the earth.

Grey's Scouts were trained to shoot from horseback while moving at the gallop and that would be pretty cool to see in miniature.

Why do they have to be cav? They can be a mounted rifle unit. Get from point A to B on horse dismount fight as Inf then move on.

Makes more sense then cav.

If you are still open to ideas, I think I'd go the 'generic colonial militia' route. Not-quite uniformed in greatcoats and helmets, armed mostly with simple weapons. If you wanted to get real fancy you get dismounted versions done as well so they could serve as dragoons.

-Will

Also, for a different take, the cavalry could be law-enforcement pressed into a military role- so model them more after modern NYC mounted-police officers and riot troopers.

-Will

I cant make up my mind if i dont like horses because they feature in all the periods I am not really interested in, or visa versa. i like vehicles because horses lack variety, so for me the aesthetics of an army with horses are, well, boring.

But i certainly dont object to mounted troopon somthing different, to the extent that i plan to mount my 28mm GZG Kravak on a Celtos (Brigade) Blood Reaver (I'm not so keen on the GZG Kravak riding beast-nice idea nonetheless). So i like novel laien mounts, but i dont like horses.

They are worth the maintenance though because as MeroMero mentioned, the Rhodesians got great use out of them in cavalry units. They can go where vehicles often can't, they are quieter, and vehicles can't get petrol from the earth. grin

Pournelle often featured mounted infantry in his CoDominium novels. Quite a few scenarios to game too!

Horses have a far smaller signature than vehicles, no radar return and essentially blend in with the wildlife. Food might be a problem; some kind of high-nutrition supplement may have to be carried, much like the British discovered in the highveldt, where the grass is worthless as fodder.

Grey's Scouts were trained to shoot from horseback while moving at the gallop and that would be pretty cool to see in miniature.

With auto-aiming assists, I think that's quite possible. ;)

Not disagreeing about the worth of horses as beasts of burden, just reminding people that they aren't cars that need an hour or two of maintenance a week.

Still leaning towards light infantry types, with the horse carrying all the gear.

I'll second the suggestion for Dragoons. Not all 'Cavalry' fought from the saddle.

"Not disagreeing about the worth of horses as beasts of burden, just reminding people that they aren't cars that need an hour or two of maintenance a week."

Oh, that is absolutely true. We had several horses when I was a kid, and they require a lot of daily attention in order to stay in good condition. You would not believe the number of diseases and parasites a horse can get if you're not careful. But any good cavalryman knows that his life depends on that animal, and he'll clean it and care for it in the same way an infantryman cleans and cares for his rifle.

I have been following this along, tryign to figure out if I had an opinion here or not. For the most part, I can't see any force with scifi tech using horses unless they were local militia or colonists.

Militaries, even if horses were available, would still likely rely on their tech.

-Eli

Mostly, horses will be used on colonial planets, but there are also good arguments for them being used in a PA setting a la The Postman or Twilight 2000, after the fuel and spare parts run out.

@Lampridae – Totally agree here. Horses might even be used for exploration of planets once the ecosystem has been classified as compatible with equines. A lot easier to graze your pony than have to worry about a supply train of fuels, assuming you don't have effective solar or other environmentally rechargeable power systems.

PA stuff makes a lot of sense for the same reasons as on other planets.

-Eli

I really, really like the general look of these, but as riders and with more realistic sized weapons:

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CC

Check out these horny horses:

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Dan

What about a kit that provided a generic horse body and a generic rider with a dismounted version of the same. The kit would include add-on such as weapons, hats, armor, bed rolls, packs, etc. This way the buyer could create the figure they wanted instead of being pigeon-holed into one exact type covering 1 period in time. I personally would use a kit like this for modern warfare spec-ops and zombie apocalypse survivors…

I'd buy mounted colonial militia and mounted resistance fighters. Make both! And also some civilian clothed mounted colonists. Why not make dismounted versions of the mounted miniatures.

I'd like to see the militia inspired by the Austro-Hungarian infantry uniform used in 1914 and/or the cavalary uniform used by their machinegun troops (not dragoons and Uhlans).

It would also be cool with pack horses carrying ammunition, crates and heavy support weapons.

Any more developments on this issue?

Tabletop Warrior said " Why do they have to be cav? They can be a mounted rifle unit. Get from point A to B on horse dismount fight as Inf then move on.

Makes more sense then cav."

Good show – YES! DRAgoon Show! :) Indeed, this sounds reasonable.

Altius made the comment "Oh, that is absolutely true. We had several horses when I was a kid, and they require a lot of daily attention in order to stay in good condition. You would not believe the number of diseases and parasites a horse can get if you're not careful."

Which is why you'd definitly want a choice of animals for mounts in different environments. And horses are also very responsive to variations in gravity ( AS the USAF study on airdropping animals during Viet Nam conflict showed ), mainly by going into hysterics and hurting themselves; Thats why I hope it was a slow elevator Arnie took in TRUE LIES*. Then again, the best animal to handle lower g's is not really suitable for riding – Unless you're a dwarf, as it is the pig.

*Who is a horseman in real life, they tell me.