"Blitzkrieg Commander 1/72 Idea..." Topic

Hey fellow dicerollers and miniature aficionados
Don't know if this is the right place to post…but here goes nothing.
TO MODERATOR – can you move this post to a more appropriate space if required (ie don't just delete, pleasee?)

Stumbled onto some 1/72 minis on sale in a store in Melbourne and before I could mumble "maybe I shouldn't…really…", there I was on the train back to Parkville with four not so new boxes (Airfix US Marines and German Infantry and Italeri US and German).

So a few figures (about 60 infantry for each side, plus stacks of machineguns etc…)….a few options……a few ideas milling about…

I've been pondering BKC awhile, looking over forums, image galleries, reading reports…reading up on it here…looking forward to my first game with system at month's end…it LOOKS pretty awesome!
But long story short I've got all this plastic out of sprues and undercoated (boxes were worn but sprues untouched, you see…) and wondering if they'd be any good for the system.
Probably not, but thought I'd ask you lot your opinions….

Currently putting together Hundred Year War (heretic, I know…why can't gamers just do one hotdarn army..or period…AT A TIME?!?!) English force for a modified version of Warmaster, incorporating the C&C rules, basic points system and bucketloads of dice..but the 1/72 figs I'm basing on 40x60mm bases. So a unit will still cover the same area (were they base to base depth) but you can't open up battlelines, essentially.
Each unit I envision will have a HP for each Wound in the original rules (to simulate the attrition written into the original).
Brigades will still be movable four at a time tops etc…

So now to the point…

I've chosen this basing because it just makes the figures look a little more natural and dynamic on their bases. Yet they still have some semblance of an army when en masse (semblance being the operative word…they're no 10mm or 6mm hordes!)
Actually having positioned them undercoated on the stands as test, 5-6 1/72 figures on 60x40mm bases allows for little dioramas, are not too cluttered….they feel "right" for my purposes….

Would it be possible to use them this way in BKC? Say 5-6 infantry to each "normal" unit? I've considered basing them 2 figures to a 20x40mm stand…but I did that ages back with Orcs for HOTT and they were really crappy and cluttered and just didn't cut it, IMH(umble)O…this new 40x60 just feels better spaced out…
Haven't purchased the rules yet, so don't know intricacies. Based my HYW army on Impetus photos which looked good, but chose to use the Warmaster Living Rulebook (yes I know I could/should/must buy Ancients and Medieval but what can I say…I'm a student supporting myself in a foreign country…free rules and 1/72 plastics aren't my dream either but it's this or no gaming!!!)

What kind of problems could I run into? Anyone tried this?
Any opinions, ideas, experiences?

Cheers and thanks for reading my humble post.
Hope you can help with some heads up (nothing's glued as yet…so maybe someone can save me an awful experience!)!

Peace to all (in life…WAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR and nothing but on the tables…..)
Stevie

As long as both armies are mounted the same, I don't see why it would be a problem.

BKC is very forgiving when it comes to base size. If you get your hands on the Future war commander rulebook, there are excellent rules in the back for doing skirmish level, mainly aimed at 25-28mm bu usable in any scale.

Phil

To echo the comments above, BKC isn't fussy about base sizes, so you should be fine with your 60x40 bases. I suppose the only advanatge to using smaller bases with fewer figures is that you'd get more elements out of the figures you've got, but you don't need a ton of stuff to play BKC. You will need to be able to differentiate MG, mortar and infantry groups though.

BKC would be fine for you to use.

I agree with Mal, they would work.

I know several guys who do BKC with those figures. Works just fine.

As the others say should work fine. Many people use 50x25 bases for 10/12mm infantry, so 60x40 isn't that much bigger.

If it feels a bit crowded then you can always increase the measurements by 1.5x or so.

5-6 1/72 figures on 60x40mm bases allows for little dioramas, are not too cluttered….they feel "right" for my purposes….

Hi Stevie,

I can't comment on BKC, though basing should never be an issue, but on your planned density – that sounds like a lot of figures on a small bit of real estate. I use 38mm by 38mm (1.5" by 1.5") and find 2 figures to be enough with three figures sometimes looking crowded.

picture

picture

I'll put more than my usual two on gun crew stands because the crew will be closer together anyway and on some command stands:

picture

picture

All those pics are of 1.5" by 1.5" which is about 38mm by 38mm.

Of course, the best thing to do is simply get your 40 by 60 bases and "dry fit" figures to them. If you find they look good, then that's what's right.
--
Tim

I don't see any reason 1/72 would not work for BKC other than . . . maybe the size of tanks and the ranges involved. You many need to tweak things a little -- then again maybe not at all.

I'd try it 'as is' and see if that works for you before getting all worked up about it.

mjc

The issue you'll run in to is tanks and other vehicles. You may want to take a look at Piquet's WWII set Field of Battle. These rules are designed for use with larger bases and require a minimal amount of vehicles compared with most rules.

link

The Yahoo group has lots of info about the rules.

link

I am using 1/72 for these rules. Crossfire is another good choice for multi-figure bases

Thanks,

John

As Tim says, 5-6 figs on a 60x40 is quite packed in. For 20mm WW2 infantry I usually use 2 figs on 40x40 or 3 on 60x60. That looks plenty close enough.

I go with Martin's basing. BKC works very well for 20mm and there are several players I know of using 20mm on the BKC forum.

Thanks lads
I wrote up a roll call today (copy/paste from xls file below…real lazy arvo today!…)
Under hand I therefore have (no vehicles I fear…yet!)

US
8 Sergeants (with Thompson SMG)
8 GIs standing guard (with Garands)
12 running Garands
16 standing Garands
8 kneeling Garands
8 prone Garands
9 prone GIs (throwing granades)
6 kneeling GIs (as above)
4 GIs with Bazookas
4 GIs with 30cal
2 rubber boats (2 GIs each)

TOTAL "common" Garand/granade Infantrymen: 67

GERMANS
1 Commander (cool little dude with squared hat and pistol)
2 Radio operators
2 Lieutenants (with pistols)
9 Lieutenants (with MP40)
3 Lieutenants kneeling (with MP40)
3 Kar98K guards
4 running Kar98K
10 standing Kar98K
9 lying Kar98K
4 kneeling Kar98K
8 throwing granades
3 with mines
3 bazookas
5 flamethrowers
3 complete MG42 sections (4 figures per base: prone shooter, loader, MP40 leader, Kar98K guard)
2 mortar sections (loader covering his ears, soldier loading mortar)
5 snipers
2 stabilizer mounted MG42
4 prone MG42

Total regular troopers 38

Reckon I can make some semblance of even a basic force out of these lots. And being 1/72 plastics, getting another box for each is doable…but getting ahead of myself already…..
Only looked at a composition for the Gerrys over at the minute..

But first thoughts were

1 HQ (Commander, radio, guard)
3 x Infantry sections each comprising 3 bases (9 bases total)
Each bases would feature 1xMP40 Lieutenant and 3-4 riflemen
3 x MG42 support sections (one for each of the above sections)
2 x Mortar sections
3 x Flamer sections

That's with quite a few figures per base (offering mini-dioramas, in essence).
LOVED the photo links you posted…totally revolutionized my thinking, actually…
Thank you!

Quite dangerous this website…and you friendly fellow dice rollers…this could escalate I fear…adding to the already 50+ painted but unbased Caesar Orks I have and the 100-odd HYW English infantry and knights in the Spiderman box on me table!

Thanks for comments (I've undercoated the GIs today so painting's at least begun…)
Would like to get the project done within the month, but as I don't have anyone to play against (or rules…I've just moved here and reorganising myself) thanks for introducing me to the 40x40/2 figure idea

Ciao!
Stevie

If you are looking at BKC, you are going to need a mix of rifle teams, HQs, MG teams and mortar teams (and some AT teams are always nice) I usally aim to build forces so if necessary I can do 1:1 tactical games but more common they get used for one base = one platoon/company or whatever.

For the US troops listed above I would go with something like:

Company HQ (3 figs)

3 x rifle platoons each with:

Platoon HQ (2 figs)
6 x rifle teams (3 figs each, shame you haven't got any BARs)
1 x bazooka team (1 fig with bazooka plus loader)
1 x MG team (MG gunner plus helpers)

You've got plenty of figures to do that, and it means you can field either a full rifle company at 1:1 (ish) OR two infantry batalions at 1 base = 1 platoon.

Base up the other MG and bazooka teams just in case.

Shame you haven't got any mortars, maybe convert some of the kneeling/prone figures into three 60mm mortar teams (2 figs each)?

For the Germans you want something like:

Company HQ (3 figs)
3 x AT sections (2 figs each)
2 x tripod MG teams
2 x mortar teams

3 x platoons each:

Platoon HQ (2 figs)
3 x rifle sections, each one base of rifle/SMG (3 figs) and on base bipod MG42 (2-3 figs)

as above, you may as well base up all the the MGs and mortars, and do a few pioneer groups with flamethrowers, SMGs and mines.

Again, this lerts you field a full rifle company or a pair of infantry battalions.

I usually do snipers as single based, and you can never have too many single based observers, scouts, runners etc. Put these on pennies.

There are army lists in BKC, but the above is enough to get started. You'll probably need some vehicles and towed guns at some point. Plenty of cheap and easy to assemble options here too.

That's simply awesome Martin!
And thanks to everyone else, too…
Meanwhile I've undercoated the Gerries, too…
Spray painted US in Acrylic green and Germans in light gray
Cheating bastard style, I know..
But I've done the same with Operation Overlord figures in the past and then just went over skin, weapons, all black parts, all brown parts etc…and then Miracle Dipped the models for shading and sealed with hairspray and they were more than suitable for gaming.

If basing them on 40x40 is therefore an option this may turn out to be the quickest and cheapest wargame force I've ever done (and not least the only one I've ever finished…and there's two of them!)

Godspeed and thank you heaps!
Stevie

I base 1:72 figures 3 to a 30mm square base for infantry squads; they fit, and they look OK. I don't find it too crowded.

Oh boy….what have you guys got me onto here?!?
I'm sure you all know them already…
But here's some other links I picked up looking about the 'net…
All 1/72 or 20mm…and they DO look so good with 2-3 figures to a base!
Pure inspiration…gotta get painting madly this weekend!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!!!!

:)
link

link

link

link

You can see from that first link that you don't need a ton of stuff for a decent game of BKC.

Good luck with your painting.

Hmm, for the US I realise I've given you a horrible mixup of para and infantry organisations.

For Infantry it should be:

Company HQ

3 x infantry platoons each of
HQ
3 x sections (of two groups)
1 x bazooka team

1 x weapons platoon with
3 x tripod MG
3 x 60mm mortar teams

the paras decentralised the heavy weapons.

Anyway, the unit counts are similar:

1 x Company HQ
3 x Platoon HQs
18 x Rifle groups
3 x MG groups
3 x 60mm mortar groups
3 x bazooka teams

The Germans end up with

1 x Company HQ
3 x Platoon HQs
9 x rifle groups
9 x rifle/bipod MG42 groups
3 x AT teams
2 x 81mm mortar teams
2 x tripod MG42 teams

but as I said, you may as well base up all the mortars and MGs and do a few groups pioneers as well.

Thank you for your help, Martin
If I may bother you for one more thing…
link
This is the link to the two boxes I have.
You mentioned I didn't have any BARs…maybe I do?
I've looked online for images of a BAR (not too familiar with WWII..)
Are there any in this image?

Cheers!
PS
Germans were
link
link
respectively

The Airfix US Marines (second edition), excellent! No BARs in there I'm afraid (they are like a big rifle with a box magazine on the bottom).

link

Basically a US rifle squad had a guy with an SMG, ten guys with rifles and one with a BAR. I would usually model this as one group with rifle/SMG, the other with rifle/BAR. Some rules (like Flames of War) suggest the larger US squad should have three groups (two with rifles, one with rifles and the BAR).

The prone riflemen will make excellent helpers for the .30 cal MGs.

I'm wondering if you couldn't bodge up a mortar team from that guy lying down throwing the grenade and another prone rifleman. Cut off his SMG, maybe carve the grenade away and just make a small mortar out of a bit of sprue and card.

The Germans are a good mix too, the blokes with their hands in the ears in the Airfix set will make good helpers for the Esci mortar gunners.

I can't think of a good use for the dinghy crews I'm afraid!

I did not realize there was a second edition of the Airfix US Marines! Though it hit me when I read the link from PSR Stevie provided on the subject when the reviewer said "man with a bazooka has been included, but there is no-one to load the weapon" and I said, yeah, sure there is! When I looked closer, they had a link to the first edition. These first edition guys are scattered about my American troop stands…
--
Tim

Yes, the second edition was after my time, my US Marines are all the proper first edition ones. Still resplendant in their humbrol enamels after all these decades.

Enamels…what will they dream of next, huh?
:)