"Flag for Waldeck regiment in the AWI?" Topic

They were quite an active regiment, but I have never been able to find a flag.
I like dark blue with yellow facings.

Doesn't GMB make one? Try the flag Guy.

Bob

Do they? What are their sources?

Did they carry one to America? I thought many of these units were composite drafts of german recruits with the home regiment staying in Europe.

In the South the practice of small detachments being scattered over the frontier did not leave much use for a regimental flag.

They were active in the New York campaign, as a full regiment.
They were also sent to Pensacola, but I don't know how they operated there.

There was a Courier article on Dutch regiments in the WAS, with obscenely complicated flags. I have that on, hand painted on a computer scan, pressed in the leaves of a book somewhere for whenever I get around to doing Waldeck, or just a command stand.
My guess is that in 30 or so years, there were probably about 8 more quarterings added, so it is obsolete.
It's an "until something better comes along" flag, and different from the standard barred lion or white horse.

There seems to be some confusion as to whether this was a Waldeck regiment already in Dutch service (legally, the Netherlands and Great Britain were allies at this time), or whether it was newly raised to meet treaty requirements as Rudy suggests. If the former, then it would presumably have Dutch-style colours, but whether it would have been allowed to carry them in a war to which the Netherlands was not a party, is a moot point.

Two contemporary representations of the Waldeck uniform:-

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link

For those interested, there is a very good book by Bruce Burgoyne on the Waldeckers, published by Heritage Books; from memory, however, there is no reference to colours in it.

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I have two German-language booklets on the AWI German contingents/uniforms "according to Fritz Kredel". [Mr Kredel was a uniform illustrator.] Unfortunately, I read next to no German so I can't exactly translate this on the Waldeck flag but it sounds like it just says it was captured by the Spanish in Florida but doesn't give a description:

Die 4 Musketier-Kompanien des Regiments führten jeweils eine Fahne, die bei der Einnahme von Pensacola 1781 von den Spaniern erbeutet wurden.

Es gibt jedoch weder Angaben zum Aussehen noch zum Verbleib. Zunächst sollten die Trophäen in Madrid sein, dann in der Kirche in Santiago de Compostela, aber beide Hinweisse erwiesen sich als nicht haltbar [35]. Am 21, Januar 1783 erhielt das Regiment bei New York neue Fahnen [36].

35 = siehe hierzu: A.U. Koch [Deutsche Blauröcke], G Davies Regimental Colors in the war of the Revolution, New York 1907
36 = HETRINA V,9. [From the bibliography, HETRINA is Hessiche Trupen im amerikanishchen Unabhängigkeitskrieg an index of surnames from Marburg archives in 1976.]

There is a "Fähnrich als Adjutant" listed in the "Etat". Unfortunately, the musketeer and grenadier illustrations do not include a flag picture. The grenadier illustration doesn't illustrate but describes that the metal plate on the grenadiers' cartridge-boxes have an "F" and a crown above it. Maybe the flag was the same? Maybe it's still displayed in the Spanish church as a trophy? Pay for my flight, John, and I'd be willing to check it out for you.

About the Dutch service connection, there is this paragraph about Frederick raising the 3rd Infantry Regt:

Zu Beginn des Uhabhängigkeitskrieges gab es bereits zwei Waldecker Infanterie-Regimenter. Sie standen in holländischen Diensten und gaben einen Teil der Offiziere und Mannschaften für das neue 3. Regiment ab. Damit war ein guter Ausbildungsstand und gute Disziplin gesichert. Zwar gab es in Waldeck zur Ergänzung des Militärs das Mittel der Aushebung, doch sollte auf Anordnung des Landesherrn die noch fehlende Mannschaft bestand für das neue Regiment durch Werbung Freiwilligen beschafft werden. Dabei wurden Männer aus Waldeck, aber auch aus anderen deutschen Territorien geworben.

And for everyone's information: the grenadier company had 127 all ranks: 3 officers; 11 NCOs; 1 Feldscher; 2 fifers; 3 drummers; 2 Knechten and 105 grenadiers. And each musketeer company had 126 all ranks: 3 officers; 12 NCOs; 1 Feldscher; 1 fifer; 3 drummers; 1 Knechte; and 105 musketeers. And a senior staff of (if I've translated properly) 1 Lt Col; 1 Major; 1 Fähnrich als Adjutant; and 3 (Officer) Cadets. The lesser staff include 1 quartermaster; 1 Regimentsfeldscher [RSM?]; 1 Auditeur; 1 Regimentstambour [drum major? or a 'personal' drummer for the Lt Col?); 1 preacher; and 1 Profoss. And there was an artillery detachment of two 3-pdrs with 2 Bombardiers and 12 Kanonieren artillerists. And the whole contingent started out as 1,225 men.

As far as I know, Waldeck territorial holdings (and claims)had mostly solidified by 1712. There were additions in the 19th century, but things didn't actually change between the WAS and the AWI, so that flag may still be good John!

Andygamer, thanks for publishing that very detailed list! It would seem the company flags were carried by NCOs not otherwise distinguished, while the lone ensign was doing duty as adjudant (possibly Carl Mueller, who later commanded the successor unit in Dutch service at the Cape)

"Feldscher" and "Regimentsfeldscher" are medical staff at company and regimental level, only the latter probably being a trained surgeon.

Oh, and John, don't buy that ticket to Spain just yet! It says that both rumours about the flags' whereabouts proved false…
But if they received new flags in New York early in 1783, perhaps that ceremony left a trace in local papers?

proved false

And thank you for the surgeon translation. My pocket dictionary didn't have anything seemingly related under "feld…".

You're welcome! Any other translation from German or French that I can help with, let me know. I'm not gaming the AWI myself, but have a soft spot for German princeling's miniature armies – a way to justify my own toy soldiering perhaps?

Actually, a final edit of my post seems to have disappeared. It dropped the reference to Mueller, who only joined the regiment in the course of the war among several other ensigns, and obviously wasn't the one serving as adjudant, and also noted that Burgoyne (linked by SM) translates the medical ranks as "surgeon's mate" and "regimental surgeon"

As for the flag, the horiziontal tricolour may not be as anachronistic as we thought:

"A flag reproduced in the civic archive of the town of Wildungen [the counts of Waldeck's ancestral seat] shows a red-yellow-black flag with a black star in the center and the date 17*75. Because Wildungen did not own particular civic colors but used the same colors of the Country, it is to be believed that in 1775 the red was already present also on the Country flags."

Source: link