"Carthaginian Levy for Zama" Topic

Dragged from the streets of Carthage and stuck in front of Hannibal's veterans, like a speedbump…

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Cheers, Simon

They look excellent!
Are they your usual mix of different makes?

Simon, how are you planning to represent how the levy fought? For our game, we've come up with two possibilities. The first is to make them "medium" infantry; the second is to make them heavier, but model some negative interaction between them and the first line when it breaks (one or two of our players think this will give the game a bit of extra flavour). In both cases, they will be militia morale grade. I must admit that I don't have any preference; I suspect we won't make a final decision until we playtest the game at least once.

Paul

Simon, they look good. I would leave the eyes like they are IMHO. Cheers Mike P.S. I JUST HAD MY LT. EYE SURGERY DONE, T IS STILL A LITTLE BURRED!

Unfortunately, the way the Carthaginian citizens' faces are sculpted, without a bit of shadow, it looks like they all have their eyes closed.

I wasn't going to comment on the Numidians, but since you asked: I'm only seeing the whites of their eyes, and no pupils. They look equally odd.

I'm generally happy with just the hint of an eye on 25-28mm (and even 30mm!) figures.

When you're in the Mediterranean or desert sun:

- You squint; you don't keep your eyes wide open.

- The eyebrow ridge shades the eye itself, reducing definition.

- At any distance but Right Up Close, it's not possible to see the details of the eye.

Take a look at this shot of men at various distances:

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Note that the guys in the very back are the closest is comparison to your figure photos to a human face seen at distance. And you don't see details at all.

That's why I'm happy to go with just a shaded eye socket and a dark line across the eye in 28mm. If the figure is blatantly sculpted with staring eyes, then a subtle hint of gray to off-white suffices at the sides of the pupil.

Others have different thoughts, of course. I just generally don't like looking at most folks's attempts at eyes in that size figure.

So for the Carthaginian citizen levey, I'd probably just draw a brush tip with sepia ink below the sculpted eyelid to suggest the eye in shadow.

Interesting that this came up now, as I've addressed the same point in the article I've done about painting JJartist's 1st Corps phalangites, and I'm packing the figures up today to send them to him. So you'll see my discussion of that point again, I reckon!

Allen

Hi Mike, hope that surgery settles down for you.

Hi Paul, I'm thinking we will make them "Auxilia" in C&CA terms, but only give them two hits. That should help them fulfil their speed bump role! In the actual battle they seem to have been rather ineffective, except that their bodies piled in heaps did act as something of an impediment to the later fighting in the centre.

waasland, they are mostly Crusader with a few Foundry for variety.

Hi Allen,

I've not tried to paint eyes on the numidians, so much as to indicate a glint of light off the eye area… hence the lack of pupils. But as you say it's not entirely successful. Although they aren't quite right, I personally prefer them to the new Carthaginians without.

I'm also not a big fan of the white eye with a dot technique.

I might try the dark line approach you mention, perhaps with a tiny white dot on that… will look forward to seeing your technique!

Cheers, Simon

You'll see them, but I was aiming at matching Jeff's work. You can see in his earlier article that some of the 1st Corps figures have the same "puffy" eyelids as do your Carthaginians:

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And those look fine with just a dark line between the lids.

Once I had his sample pikemen in hand, and looked close, I was able to see that he used a very subtle suggestion of white and pupil. Not using a white dot so much as just a bit of lighter color to give the impression of white. Gave me fits trying to match it! But once you fgure it out, it's not hard to do.

Allen

Simon, These look great.

My prefered method of painting eyes (when I absolutely have too) is to use a shadow of dark in the eye sockets, and paint the eyebrows. Eyebrows do a lot for a face to bring it to life.

And I hate to break the news to you, but…since you are playing Commands and Colours you should know that each block has two (2) figures on it, four (4) blocks for a foot unit, eight (8) figures to a hex. Just think about how much painting and basing time you could have saved your self… ;-)

Seriously though this should be an epic game! Since I can't be there I will be waiting with baited breath for the AAR complete with pictures please.

Auxillia with only two hits per unit? Sure sounds like a speed bump to me.

Are those pink shields?

Great work "Bat" …

Mike B

Hi Dave, for Zama my 4 units of Thureophoroi, and 4 of Carthaginians, will magically become 12 C&C units.

I'm planning that all the Zama Auxilia, LI and LC will have 2 hits; elephants just one. Only HI and Generals will count for victory blocks, so the game will come down to the veterans, principes and triarii. I want the game to be over in 2 hours so we can play it twice…

Eyebrows, maybe… hmm.

Cheers, Simon

Simon

While I did a decent job painting eyes in my younger days now I find that a wash of Renaissance Ink Brown (or equivalent) provides natural shadows for the face including eye sockets and lips. May need some touching up as sometimes it is overdone.

That said, the Crusader guys without helments are easy enough to do with eyes (even now) but those with helmets are frankly too hard! Now the teeth on some chaps yelling with open mouths are another story.

Should be a great game and I hope that Hannibal makes better use of his resources than he did on the day………………

Always enjoy your posts – even those werewolves! The trees on their bases gave me ideas for open order infantry.

Cheers

Garry

Hi Garry, thanks.

I hope it'll work; I'll certainly have playtested it to death using blocks many times before the day. I'm waiting to see the new Epic Rules work…

I'll definitely do something, eye-wise. I'm thinking heavier shading and a very small white (or grey) fleck. Need teeth, too!

I still have a few more Gloranthan photos up my sleeve… one I'll show next week is a real humdinger!

Cheers,

Simon

Nice work on those, Simon! Looking forward to seeing your Glorantha photos.

Great looking figures

hussarbob1746.webs.com

Simon, eye surgery went well I can see colors again, maybe I will start painting !!!! Cheers Mike Adams

Hi Mike that is great news! I bet you have been missing it!

Cheers, Simon

Simon, you are right on the money!! Cheers, Mike Adams P.S. Mary & I have to get a new camera ours died, so any picture taking went also. Maybe Santa will buy Mary a new camera!

Hi all, I've completed a second unit of levy, this time with the controversial eyes added (well with a small flash of white and an ink wash, anyhow):-

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Cheers, Simon

Simon, again looks good! Cheers Mike Adams

I think the standard would be more effective with some lashes………?????

Good looking levy – nice mix.

Cheers

Garry

Thanks Garry! They are coming together, gradually.

Simon