"What Is "Old School" Gaming?" Topic

Having enjoyed reading Der Alte Fritz's battle reports, especially the latest one which he calls "old school" I got to wondering what does that mean exactly?

What are the characteristics of an "old school" game?

What are NOT the characteristics of same?

What rulesets would be considered Old School?

And which certainly would not?

This might help:

link

From link
"So far, the only consensus arrived at is 'simple rules and a fun game'."

On that basis, most (all?) of my gaming would be classified as "old school"!!

Here's some characteristics :

Simple rules with straightforward mechanics and with no Command and Control rules
Figures based singly with casualty removal
Figures neatly painted, no shading, gloss varnished and on plain bases
Large units
Generally 17th and 18th century games (horse, foot and guns), but could well be fictional conflicts using figures from this period

Not necessarily:

"Figures neatly painted, no shading, gloss varnished and on plain bases"

In the early days, many wargamers painted their figures with Humbrol enamels. Some gloss varnished them, some didn't. I didn't.

"Large units"

If you had the space, then fine. I didn't so often reduced the size of units to fit the space available.

"Generally 17th and 18th century games (horse, foot and guns), but could well be fictional conflicts using figures from this period"

Please do not think of "old school" as relating only to the works of Peter Young and Charles Grant. There are old school style rules for all periods, not just the 18th century.

1:1, lightly painted if at all, very simple rule-set.

picture

This is about as old-school as it gets.

Not sure I agree with it being just Horse & Musket, as Don Featherstones, Charles Grants and Lionel Tarrs WW2 rules are most definately 'Old School'.

To me, old school is:

i) single based figures and casualty removal
ii) in some cases convoluted attempts to match march rates, ground scale and weapon ranges which result in Waterloo being over in ten minutes (yes Mr Grant, I mean you)
iii) gadgets (bounce sticks, blast circles, MG cones)
iv) the use of whatever toy soldiers are available, flats, Airfix or literally toy soldiers (like HG Wells)
v) inches for measuring
vi) the liberal use of plastic rail modelling trees on hardboard hills painted green
vii) Vacuform walls
viii) lichen hedges
ix) The Airfix La Haye Saint farm complex used in every game
x) rules published by the wargaming giants of the 50s and 60s – Grant, Featherstone, Young, Bath et al

In regards to mechnics there would be a lot of confusion. Even the3 term can be confusing. As the others stated the 'fun' aspect of many rules is important.
The term for some implies a 1960s era view of gaming. Others look more towrd the simplicity of the 1960s and early 1970s as Old School. Others might even regard the rules developed in the late 1970s and 1980s with increased complexity and realism as Old School.

many new concepts are old in reality. many current mechanics were used int Old School rules. I remember TSRs TRICOLOR Napoleonics as being a bucket of dice combat game and was intrigued by Empire's more realistic approach in 1977.

My generalization would be that "Old School" can imply any game reminiscent of any of the games played 20 years ago or further back. I'd also say "old school" rules imply brevity or at least more rules than pictures, i.e.- more substance over shine, even if incomplete or open to interpretation or customizing. Exceptions to brevity would be those old chart intensive games seeking the goal of being a simulation model.

I'm not naming systems for old school or not, as it's too subjective to the experience of the reader.

When I think of "old school" wargaming, I think 25mm figures, d6 based and IGOUGO with a fixed sequence of play. Sort of a back to basics kind of thing. Rules could be simple or complex, but I think it's more about attitude. It brings to mind a more relaxed and gentlemanly approach to the game where you play for fun and "don't let 'reality' stand in the way of a good wargame."

1. Single figure mounting with casualty removal
2. An attempt to express strength as a ratio (1 figure = 40 men).
3. Explicit ground scale (1 inch = 50 yards) with ranges and base size to match
4. Lists of +/- modifiers for most actions to get a final modifier
5. Turn length that matches some unit of time. 1 turn = 10 minutes, etc.

Contrast this with "modern rules":

1. Figures are based to represent an entire unit on a base. Units have "strength points" or some such.
2. Ground scale and time are variable. Also introduces the idea of random movement distance and turn length
3. As long as the outcome of an action feels right, modifiers and conditions are unnecessary

So in essence, "old school gaming" indicates a vague, nostalgic affection for rule sets from "the good old days," as defined in any number of different ways by whomever is using the term at that particular moment.

"Figures neatly painted, no shading, gloss varnished and on plain bases"

In the early days, many wargamers painted their figures with Humbrol enamels. Some gloss varnished them, some didn't. I didn't.

I used to use Testors gloss enamels, it was the only thing I could get where I lived.

Goldwyrm, are you generally saying that rules with more shine have less substance?

I assume rules published 30 years ago lack shine because of the lack of technical options or do you think the authors left out any pictures etc deliberately?

Rules which are only 30 years old probably did lack shine as they were often home duplicated, I've even got one set done on a banda (sp?) machine. Charles Grants rulebooks (40 years old) were however lavishly illustrated with pictures and photographs. They were sold as books though.

I'm not sure 'fun' comes to mind when I thnk of some of those rules, 54 figure battalions were a PITA and rather daunting to paint. Hurrah for Bruce Quarrie and a sane ratio of figure representation, even bigger hurrah for WRG and 1:50. Misty eyed nostalgia. yes. Would I want to play them now? no. There were rules lawyers in those days too.

Allow me to politely disagree with the "fun and simple" description.
When I broke into the hobby in the 70s, we needed to carry the rules and the supplements in separately, the books were so large.
We needed trained acolytes and presbytyrs to translate and officiate the games.
Carrying the figures from the car to the table was up two flights of stairs, BOTH WAYS!
And it was always snowing. Not the light fluffy snow of today, but real snow.
No stinking Featherstone or Bath rules, no sir! We played rules designed, written and/or influenced by the flagellants at SPI and GDW! Charts leading to charts (in a different volume) leading to charts!

And we liked it!

Kids today…

Old school certainly doesn't refer to any 30+ year old systems. In the 70s we played Tractics, which was ferociously complicated, WRG 3rd,which often disolved into insolveable arguments and Column, Line & Square which had a volume of addenda. Though old none of them fit my idea of old school.

"2. An attempt to express strength as a ratio (1 figure = 40 men).
3. Explicit ground scale (1 inch = 50 yards) with ranges and base size to match
5. Turn length that matches some unit of time. 1 turn = 10 minutes, etc."

Featherstone's rules (which are definitively old school) do not have any of those.

Quite. My recollections of 'old school' alternated between nights of WRG, TTG and their ilk, which would involve games of only a couple of turns, before bogging down into hours of rule-referencing and arguing, alternating with games of such moronic simplicity that the rules stayed the roughly the same for all periods, but only the figures would change.

However, there were moments of sheer joy, such as our Featherstone-inspired WW1 naval campaigns with VAST playing areas (usually the floor) and matchstick torpedoes… :o)

Old School is a state of mind. It's about looking back fondly on the days when you could buy a bag full of Spencer Smiths for the price of a packet of Spangles. It's about summer afternoons holed up in suburban bedrooms with Charles Grant (not like that, don't be dark) whilst your peers were pulling wheelies on their Choppers to impress the girls outside. It's about being bollocked by your Mum for snagging your new tank top on bits of coathanger whilst trying to make a canister cone.

To me, old school gaming is getting the personal, down in the mud type battles.

YouTube link

Goldwyrm, are you generally saying that rules with more shine have less substance?

No. I'm saying some rules cover to cover may have more shine than substance as a ratio of content.

For some, an old school style booklet sparse in embedded pictures,less busy without caption boxes and exception bubbles, and with less page filler can be easier to read purely for the purposes of conducting a game with the given rules.

I can think of several rules that look great and may be interesting to collect from a pure reading perspective or look great on a coffee table, yet for me they are unwieldy as a reference when actually playing the game. They go against the keep it simple principle.

I think Goldwyrm and I must be the same age and exposed to the same types of geekdom as kids.

Steve
cavalcadewargames.com
nycjadie.wordpress.com

iii) gadgets

The tank stick, the tank stick!!!! I made one as fancy as possible for an industrial arts class project in grade 8 – I still have it at my parent's somewhere…
--
Tim

I suppose Operation Warboard would be Old School then. It has an MG cone and blast templates.

Means different things to different people I suppose. To me it means Hinchcliffe,Minifigs Garrison and Ball etc , miniatures based on card painted monotone dark green with the base of the figure obvious. It also means subbuteo mats turned upside down with books underneath for hills and yes definately the Airfix waterlooo farmhouse.

The camaraderie is most important aspect of Old School. It's many things to many different people; because all gaming is many different things to many different people. At its roots it's camaraderie, sharing, hospitality and hanging out with chums whose company you enjoy and look forward to.

Sadly I don't seem to be able to find much of that these days.

The OFM has it right. Charts, more charts, topped off by charts and errata. Most everything being conversions (I had to carve WWII French ships from balsa, with the exception of the French ships in the ALNAVCO catalog),the Tank Armies of the Soviet Union being pretty much split 50/50 between ROCO Stalin IIIs and T-35/85s and we thanked God when they released the Sherman that was more in scale with the rest of the line. Complicated rules were the only way to go as it was more "realistic" from Ancients to WWII and did I mention charts? And all this happened in the '70s when most music (on the main radio stations) sucked and clothes were made of polyester that burned, BURNED mind you, when a cigarette ash would fall on them.And we drove Pintos and Vegas (well I didn't but a lot of people did)and we listened to 8-Track and cassette tapes from players that were duct taped to the transmission hump in the car because most cars didn't have in-dash tape decks yet, in fact they didn't even usually come with FM radios standard. And there was only ONE convention (except for the ones that started and failed monthly) and it was Gen-Con and it was actually in Lake Geneva and it was in the Horticultural Hall and it was hot (damned hot)and the only women we would see at it were gary Gygax's daughters who ran the pop and hot dog concession and when we turned 18 we could actually drink when we went because it was Wisconsin and Wisconsin was a wise,enlightened State that allowed you to drink upon your 18th birthday. And most games were Napoleonics with the exception of the others which were WWII and usually involved hub to hub waves of tanks. And I mean hub to hub.And there were more and more charts and what weren't charts were tables and you rolled many dice expect for that game Kent and I got stuck in where the judge had a can that he shook and from it would be dispensed chits that said "Hit" or "Miss" and to this day, we call that man "Shaker-Can Man".

So that is what I think of when I think of Old School Gaming.

I guess what is considered old school depends on hoew old you are.

I think the Bath & Gush era was post old school

any rules that read like a legal document or require a chiropractor to treat your back don't make it as "old school"

I think Goldwyrm and I must be the same age and exposed to the same types of geekdom as kids.

I'm 38, from the original Star Wars and after school reruns of war movies and westerns generation, and started gaming in '83. Old school for me resembles stuff I played in the 80's- AD&D, Traveller, Featherstone Rules with 1/72 plastics, and 1st edition 40k.

Old School is:

Horrible to very average figures (by today's standards) -- it's all in the painting.

Single source research (Funken Books)

Books for hills, crepe paper for rivers, plastic RR buildings.

Beer flats for storage boxes.

Bases (if you bothered with bases) made of poster board (which is still a pretty good medium).

Rules that were guaranteed to foster arguments that would go on for hours -- leaving mere minutes for the game.

Crawling around the floor on your knees in an attic without heat or insulation (120 in the summer and -30 in the winter).

Humbroil oils, disasters with Testors, spray painted line troops, range/bounce sticks, and using chalk to draw terrain on concrete surfaces.

We were all pretty poor back then with more time than money and more ambition than common sense.

In a way it was pretty cool to have no limits but no way to get to where we wanted to be.

I suspect there is someone out there reading this saying "that's me today!"

mjc

Wisconsin- the only place I have ever bought a pint of Black Jack at the gas station. No state stores for them! Most of my gaming in the 70's involved myself and a buddy playing SPI games in his basement.We did toy with Napoleonics in the 80's,though.

"I'm 38, from the original Star Wars and after school reruns of war movies and westerns generation, and started gaming in '83. Old school for me resembles stuff I played in the 80's- AD&D, Traveller, Featherstone Rules with 1/72 plastics, and 1st edition 40k."

Pretty damn close.

Steve
cavalcadewargames.com
nycjadie.wordpress.com

So we have "old school gaming" and "really old school gaming".

So we have "old school gaming" and "really old school gaming".

Isn't it really your individual perspective that dictates? I started with Featherstones Book Wargames and Rev War Armies from the back of a comic book, flat brittle plastic in red and blue. Still the games were great fun.

Awesome miniatures and complexity came later, and so did endless arguements, rules lawyers, painting critics and basically what I like to call the period of NO fun.

I paint for me now, I really don't care what anyone thinks of the paint jobs. Some are glossy and simple, some have detail and some are super detailed but it's for me. I play rules that have a feel for the period, but are butt simple and easy. I want a game that I can setup, play to a conclusion, joke and kibitz during and tear down in 6-8 hours max.

If anybody wants to join me, fine. If not I'm ok playing a game by myself, or with my daughters and wife.

I think in all cases Old School is about the game, the company kept and the enjoyment. I don't think it's a type of miniature, paint job or rules system.

Nom de Guerre:
Chess.
Rod Robertson.

John the OFM:
Regarding:
"And it was always snowing. Not the light fluffy snow of today, but real snow."
Folks in Penn. have no idea what real snow is – Come to Canada and sample real snow!
Rod the SOF (Snowy Old Fart)

As others have said, Old School means different things to different people. We have had this discussion many time on the Old School Wargaming Yahoo Group and could never gin up a definitive answer to the question: "what is Old School Wargaming?"

A large component of OSW is a sense of nostalgia for the old rules, books and figures that we used in our days of yore. It could run the gamut from Featherstone, Peter Young's "Charge", anything by Charles Grant, including his awesome book, "The Wargame", Joe Morshauser, Jack Scruby's Wargamers Digest, Charles Weisencraft and a host of others.

On the figure side, it is a rediscovery of old 25mm Scruby, Hinton Hunt, Minifig, Hinchcliffe, Garrison, RSM, Connoisseur figures and many more unnamed herein.

Rules and terrain tend to be on the simple side. No railroad diorama quality terrain, but more likely some felt cloth covering a few books and some chalk roads and rivers and whatever you could find to represent trees. Buildings were scratch built out of card or blocks of wood and looked nothing like the wonderful little bits of architecture that we see today.

The quality of everything was a few notches below the wonderful figures, terrain bits and pieces, and full color books that we have grown accustomed to, but we still have the pangs and needs for the old stuff.

The Old School movement has caused me to rediscover many old brands of figures such as Suren, Stadden, Scruby, Hinchcliffe, Minifig, Holger Erickson, RSM and Spencer Smith plastics. Whereas a few years ago I would not have wanted any of these old figures, I now seek them out with a great deal of appreciation for what they are.

Fun

Well said 20thmaine.

Its simply the gaming you remember from your youth when you're getting old.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Well I did not think the girl
Could be so cruel
And I'm never going back
To my old school

'Its simply the gaming you remember from your youth when you're getting old.'

True!

Converting everything because the choices were so limited. 'cleaner' figures in the sense that the paint did more of the work. Usually a gloss finish. Usually Airfix plastic for WW2, Airfix, Minifigs or Garrison for anything else. Basic terrain, figures painted for masds effect rather than lots of individual masterpieces. 1976 at the latest.

Old School:

Charts and/or lots of modifiers
No related brand of miniatures, just suggestions
Block painting, wire pikes, huge tables, nice terrain
Haughty separatism

Banana oil (or something like it) over plasticene,

Carving Airfix figures (and fingers),

Getting the Meccano magazine for Grant's articles and Airfix magazine to convert Airfix figures,

Eventually tracking down copies of the London Club's magazine (forgot the name) in a model shop that also had cut out plastic sheet trenches and the like. Being amazed at the ACW campaign fought over Ireland,

my first average dice,

Hinton Hunt figures.

Whistfully searching for a lost 'Golden Age' that never was. A bit like the quest for ShangriLa or Eternal Youth, the chosen activity of the aged?