"15mm Figures for the Iran Iraq War." Topic

Me, ME, MEEEEE!!

Would these look any different than slightly scruffier 1970s Soviets? (other than the beards)

From what I can gather, Iraqi would have less variation that Iranian, usually with out much kit, and with Soviet weapons. Photos that I've seen show a variety of ammo pouches and a mix of helmets, berets, and bare headed.

The Iranians are all over the place. Uniforms and kit (typically just belt, ammo pouches, canteen, sometimes a chest pouch or pouch with shoulder strap ) usually look to me to be a mix of US and UK style stuff, at least early on, often mixed with non-military clothing also. Head coverings more varied than Iraqi with a higher frequency of headbands/traditional/cultural dress mixed in with helmets, berets and other western or soviet covers. Weapons would be more western early in the war (FN-Fal, M16, G3) changing to more Soviet as the war progresses. Looks to me that beards were more common to Iranian soldiers than Iraqi, but my sampling of photos is small.

Yup thats a pretty fair summary apart from the fact that G-3s and FALs were in service right to the end of the war, also UZIs were pretty common. Western weapons were especially popular with special forces units.

Fatman

Oh and I don't think the Iranians used the M 16, however I am willing to be proven wrong. A not uncommon occurrence!

Fatman

Mixed weapons within units, or from unit to unit?

OK no easy answer to that one, In regular prewar army units small arms ould tend to be standrdised and mostly western, many of these units continued to use this equipment until the end of the war. However, many newly raised units; reserve units activated at the start of the war and units which were rebuilt after being decimated were issued with a mix of Soviet and western kit. Despite being despised and treated with suspicion by the Islamic revolutionaries the regular army tended o maintain prewar standards of disipline and would have a reasonably uniform apearance. Obivously as the war progressed this went by the wayside but some units maintained their standards to the end. One obvious change to their equipment was the RPG. These were issued extravgantly to all Iranian units. The Pasadran Revolutionarie Gaurds would have been almost completly soviet eqiuped. Small arms wise only UZIs would be used. These units were suprisingly uniform in appearance. Beards and headbands, light order with lots of chicom chest pouches. Militia units, anything goes, SKS, AK's Soviet and Chinese, G 3's, FAL's, M1 Garandes! Also clothing would be a more acurate description of what the wore than uniform. Irishserb descrbed it well in his post.

By the way Geoff I would be intrested in these, although our current finacial situation limits our spending on hobbies. ;-)

Fatman

PS I am posting this from the Pub on my Palm, waiting for the wife who is late as usual, please excuse any spelling mistakes!

Fatman, I think you're more or less right on the M16. I've got one text that says that Iran used them, and have seen at least one pic of Iranians with them, but they may have been so rare as to not be worth mentioning. My understanding is that Iran never actually bought them for army use.

Most of the pics I've seen seem to show troops all with the same small arm.

Oops, hit submit by accident.

Anyway,pretty much agree with what fatman says above. He says it better than I would have.

Hi Irishserb (Love the callsign bye the way.)
They may have got some from the Isrealis. The Isreali goverment of the time worked on the theory that if Iran and Iraq where ripping each others hert out they were to busy to bother Isreal. I know they supplied Iran with TOW, Dragon and Maverik missiles. They also kept Irans Phantoms flying by supplying them with tires. OK the wife is here gotta go.

Fatman

So, as a 15mm range, what would you really be looking for? One pack of each weapon type (M16, FN-FAL, G3, AK, Uzi, RPK, RPG, 3 poses per pack) with a semi-standard uniform but a more random mixture of webbing arrangements?

I have often been tempted to start building forces for this conflict and always get stopped at the same point. Not wanting to convert the infantry.
Geoff I would be very excited to see you do this.
Dennis

Just trying to establish exactly what would be required

1 pack (3 poses with dissimilar military themed attire), irregular militia/paramilitary/Iranians with each of FN, M16 and G3 do you?

…more poses.. do you know just how long it takes to sculpt these things? :-)

You may have noticed a move in our pack arrangements to 3 or 4 poses, split by weapon type.

I know:
link
link

I am generally doing a pack of 3 or 4 command poses with each range

Essentially, when working on main ranges I have a little left over, which I go off and do odd figures, hence we are about to add a pack of Sealous Scouts, M16s in arctic gear, special forces in caps and P90s, that sort of thing.

This may be a long-term project built by adding odd figures while I am putting together the postwar Brits, modern Chinese, Canadians, Swedes, etc, etc… but first I need to establish an idea of exactly what would be required.

Every pose different (8 poses per pack) is unlikely to happen – it's just a commercial nightmare (not to mention the pressure on me to make [8 x 6-8 weapon types] 48-64 different masters for one range… 3 or 4 poses per pack (random mix) is working well for us as far as figures per mould and casting rates goes.

I know, but if you are mixing in assault rifle, LMG, RPG, possibly NCO with UZI and command you could be looking at an 8-10 man squad with every pose different…

I would say that the M16 may not be so important, but that a western LMG/GPMG might be needed. To be honest, I'm not sure which one though.

I know they showed Iranians using an M60 MG in a snippet I saw of an Iraqi war movie . . . that's got to be reliable info, right?

:D

Just about any Soviet can be used for Iraqis and late war Iranians.

Iranians with headband and beard for irregular units (Pasdaran and Basij) they can be armed with just about anything. The red and green headbands will show up as a nice contrast to all the khaki and mud colored uniforms. I don't claim to be an economic expert but I suspect anyone that collects Iranians will need a lot of them to simulate the human wave attacks.

Iranian regulars uniformed, helmet and armed with HKG3 rifle, M60 machine gun and Dragon ATGM. I want the regulars to stand out on the table top and giving them western weapons and helmets will do that. A green head band can be painted on the helmet so they won't look like Iraqis.

I just dug out an old Brassey's book that says that Iran was using the MG3 circa 1975-1976.

The Basij seem to make use of the green headband and/or neckwear:
picture
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The Pasdaran are smaller than I imagined:
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But seem regular. The beret would make them distinctive (even if not entirely accurate in combat:
picture

Thats a good idea using the soviets.

picture

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Any one else ????

And therein lies the problem and explains why there are no dedicated Iran-Iraq war figures out there…

Other than Ak-47 Republic its the only modern conflict I want to collect and game. You would sell more than just infantry, you would sell vehicles and weapon systems I would not consider for AK-47 Republic.

I am a firm believer that painted miniatures and cool battle reports can sell just about anything. I had little interest in colonials before I visited Major General Tremorden and The Red Shadow. Most manufacturers don't do enough to promote their lines. Flames of War for example is very appealing to the eye.