| rusty musket | 28 Sep 2009 8:33 a.m. PST |
I just read a thread on American Light Infantry helmets in the AWI. One poster mentions that some cut down old felt hats to the "light infantry" design. I can understand protection from the cold, and in some cases, making soldiers look taller and more imposing, but is there another reason soldiers always wear hats even if they must improvise to have them? Thanks! |
| Sane Max | 28 Sep 2009 8:38 a.m. PST |
it approaches the question the wrong way. Until very recently, EVERYONE wore a hat. If soldiers had not, they would have looked odd. Also it keeps the old noggin warm, and protects from the sun, important in an occupation that involves lots of standing upright in all weathers looking keen. Pat |
| highlandcatfrog | 28 Sep 2009 8:50 a.m. PST |
I think the most important reason is to keep the brain from frying when outdoors for long periods in hot weather. |
| wminsing | 28 Sep 2009 8:58 a.m. PST |
Almost everyone wore hats when in public from about the 1600's up until the middle of the last (20th) century- so soldiers wore them too. It's pretty much that simple. -Will |
Extra Crispy  | 28 Sep 2009 9:00 a.m. PST |
Don't hats make your head hotter in summer? So wouldn't they turn the brain up from fry to "flambe" in summer? |
| Top Gun Ace | 28 Sep 2009 9:02 a.m. PST |
Yes, up until the mid-20th century, many people wore hats. Spend a little time outside (okay, actually more than 4 hours, or so), in the sun in the Summer, or during the Winter, especially doing physical activities, and you will see the need for a hat. |
| Connard Sage | 28 Sep 2009 9:08 a.m. PST |
Don't hats make your head hotter in summer? So wouldn't they turn the brain up from fry to "flambe" in summer? I surprised the FFL and we Brits in the Sudan survived. Ditto the Desert Rats and Afrika Korps. Soldiers in Iraq don't seem too bothered either. Much better to have the sun beating down on a hat/helmet than having it beating down on your uncovered noggin. Keeps the sun out of your eyes too. Try this simple test. Stand in the midday sun wearing a pith helmet, induce a friend to stand hatless beside you. See who succumbs to sunstroke first  Back in the good old days a hat might, just might, turn a sword cut. It also made a handy bucket. |
| Ditto Tango 2 1 | 28 Sep 2009 10:10 a.m. PST |
Don't hats make your head hotter in summer? I think mine did – we had to wear our black beret in our armoured vehicles – which was really stupid. I realized this on my first defence against an attack by another squadron in our regiment on exercise. Early summer, from about 3 kilometers away, when they took turret down, when you were scanning with binoculars, the black berets really showed up. It really startled me. After that I used to say we should be wearing the green OD bush hats our grunts wore, but since the black beret was a point of pride, I was looked at as a bit of a sacreligous subaltern. At least we wore white or green toques when we were on exercise in winter to protect our ears! But yes, protection from the sun. I have so much sun damage on my face and it's a result of not a very long career in the commander's seat of an AFV before I had to get out for medical reasons. -- Tim |
| rusty musket | 28 Sep 2009 10:15 a.m. PST |
OK – fashion and sun screen. That makes since. Now, were helmets, shakos, kepis, etc in any way designed with protection against the sun and heat in mind? Thanks again! |
| Jagger2008 | 28 Sep 2009 10:30 a.m. PST |
Don't hats make your head hotter in summer? So wouldn't they turn the brain up from fry to "flambe" in summer? Depends on the hat. If I have to do any heavy physical work in a hot sun, a straw hat is perfect for hot weather work. It gives good shade while allowing a breeze to blow through it. Nothing beats a straw hat for hot weather. Although not so good, during cold weather. |
piper909  | 28 Sep 2009 10:50 a.m. PST |
Esprit de corps, unit identification, tradition, and the advantages of seeming taller and more imposing in the face of the enemy are also logical military reasons for donning a distinctive headgear. |
| Martin Rapier | 28 Sep 2009 10:57 a.m. PST |
Apart from keeping your head cool/warm, they also stop the rain running down the back of your neck. Some military headgear is more designed for looks than utility though (the side cap!) and the main function of a helmet is to stop bits of steel entering your brain, rather than keeping the sun off. |
| quidveritas | 28 Sep 2009 11:29 a.m. PST |
First, Hats do not make your head hotter in the summer. I have a broad brimmed cowboy hat with all kinds of holes in the sides. (My wife and kids think this thing is an abomination). Keeps rain off your head, the sun off your face and the back of your neck and is not uncomfortable in the least -- well other than you cannot sit in a car wearing this hat -- you have to take it off. Second, In the winter, you lose a huge amount of heat through the top of your head. Don't remember the exact numbers, but just wearing a hat will conserve a lot of heat/energy. Third, Again don't remember the numbers, but a helmet will save your bacon in many many cases if shot in the head. Obviously some designs are better than others. Finally, As mentioned above, if it is part of the uniform, it must be worn if the troops are to remain 'uniform'. mjc |
| Top Gun Ace | 28 Sep 2009 11:42 a.m. PST |
Actually, in my opinion, they do make your head hotter, at least initially, until you start to sweat, wetting the hat, and the cooling effect from that kicks in. Also hotter in the shade with a hat on, so of more use in direct sunlight. I tend to dislike hats, but they are useful to keep from getting sunburned on the top of your head, neck, and face. |
ScottWashburn  | 28 Sep 2009 11:44 a.m. PST |
Bicorns, tricorns, shakos, bearskins, busbys, etc, etc. were all designed to help protect a soldier's head from enemy sword strokes, just as the fancy epaulets, scales, etc. were designed to protect the shoulders and those high stiff collars and stocks were deisgned to protect the necks. |
| The Jim Jones Cocktail Hour | 28 Sep 2009 11:48 a.m. PST |
"In the winter, you lose a huge amount of heat through the top of your head. Don't remember the exact numbers, but just wearing a hat will conserve a lot of heat/energy." Actually that's a myth and one that's been debunked. link |
| quidveritas | 28 Sep 2009 12:00 p.m. PST |
"Actually that's a myth and one that's been debunked." I'm hurt!!! To think that the US Army would lie to me??? Perish the thought!!! mjc |
| The Jim Jones Cocktail Hour | 28 Sep 2009 1:25 p.m. PST |
"Bicorns, tricorns, shakos, bearskins, busbys, etc, etc. were all designed to help protect a soldier's head from enemy sword strokes, just as the fancy epaulets, scales, etc. were designed to protect the shoulders and those high stiff collars and stocks were deisgned to protect the necks." Er, no they weren't. Tricorns and bicornes came about as a matter of fashion. The familiar floppy felt hat of the TYW and ECW had its sides turned up and as the years progressed this became formalised as a tricorne and then in turn a bicorne as the front peak became less prominent. If tricornes offered much in the way of protection then I doubt cavalry of the period would have gone to the trouble of wearing iron skull caps under the tricorne. You can test this for yourself. Don a felt hat, bent into any shape you fancy and get someone to crack you over the head with a fire poker. See if it offers much in the way of protection. Shakos on the other hand do appear to give a degree of protection, however if that was the primary purpose then I suspect the wearers would have been clad in the morions and cabassets of their forefathers. Again an issue of fashion. Same deal with epaulettes and stocks. |
| Timbo W | 28 Sep 2009 2:08 p.m. PST |
Perfect place to keep one's marmalade sandwiches of course! |
| Mock26 | 28 Sep 2009 2:15 p.m. PST |
SOME hats do make your head warmer in the sun, but better that your head be warmed up by indirect sunlight through your hat than be warmed up AND burned by direct sunlight. |
| Rubber Suit Theatre | 28 Sep 2009 2:34 p.m. PST |
As a bald guy, I'm a bit of a connoisseur of hats, or as I think of them, "artificial hair that doesn't look like road kill". For sun protection, you want a big hat with a high crown – this is known as a radiant barrier. It does retain a certain amount of body heat, but keeps out a lot more solar heat in addition to preventing blisters from ultraviolet burns. The US campaign hat, the Hardee hat, and the cavalry Stetson are excellent in this regard. For cold protection, go furry. My personal preference is the black wool knit cap like you see in all the WWII commando movies (freezing temperatures make my ears hurt). I think the guardian is full of it on cranial heat loss – scalp wounds bleed all over the place due to the high blood flow in that area. I also prefer to insulate that area because it's where I keep my brain. Berets are of course good for absolutely nothing (they look cute on some of the girls), to the point where sergeants major must take extreme measures to insure that their troops wear them. |
| jizbrand | 28 Sep 2009 6:40 p.m. PST |
Some military headgear is more designed for looks than utility though (the side cap!) I read an interesting article some time back that specifically addressed the side cap. Seems that, since a soldier generally removes his hat when indoors, the problem was always where to store it conveniently. The article alleged that the side cap (and the beret) were introduced as garrison-type caps to meet the requirement for a uniform hat but also were easy to carry/store/etc. when not worn. |
Frederick  | 28 Sep 2009 8:24 p.m. PST |
A couple of thoughts Military hats were, until recently, a reflection of civilian fashion – the shako, it has been argued, was the military equivalent of the top hat – while it does not look all that practical, apparently at least some of the soldiers who were issued shakoes thought they were more practical than their bicornes Hats were part of usual wear until quite recently – it has been argued that JFK's disdain for wearing hats was part of the idea that men could go around without hats As a hair-challenged individual, I have to agree with the man in the Rubber Suit – in the summer, I find it a lot more comfortable in a cap than without one |
| Mister Rab | 29 Sep 2009 2:19 a.m. PST |
Timbo – genius  |
| Supercilius Maximus | 29 Sep 2009 4:07 a.m. PST |
<<Perfect place to keep one's marmalade sandwiches of course!>> Not as daft as it sounds. Bavarian NCOs kept their company paybooks in the crown of the "raupenhelm"; I believe mess tins were also stored in them at one point. <<Military hats were, until recently, a reflection of civilian fashion – the shako, it has been argued, was the military equivalent of the top hat
>> Military shakos predated the top hat by some time – the Austrian army adopted a casquet in the SYW, as did several Prussian frei korps units. That said, most non-standard military headgear (eg mitres) evolved from occupational, as opposed to everyday, civilian heaadgear (in this case, the hats worn by brewers). <<
while it does not look all that practical, apparently at least some of the soldiers who were issued shakoes thought they were more practical than their bicornes.>> If you stuffed something into it, a shako made an adequate pillow. Finally, some 18th Century definitions:- Hat – headgear made of felt or other material, usually non-animal (ie anything worn by the sort of troops that modern-day elite units refer to as "crap hats"). Cap – headgear usually made of leather, often covered in cloth, skin or fur (in some cases, eg mitre caps, the leather was gradually phased out leaving just the covering). Helmet – headgear made predominantly of metal (as opposed to metal fronted – eg grenadier/fusilier mitres), but occasionally including items made from "japanned" or reinforced leather, issued inter alia for protective purposes (nowadays includes man-made materials like kevlar). |
ScottWashburn  | 29 Sep 2009 4:38 a.m. PST |
Jim, I can't agree with you. While the actual physical shape, color, decoration, etc. might have been dictated by fashion, there was still a protective function. The floppy hats of the TYW and ECW are irrelevant because they weren't part of a designed uniform, they were just clothing. |
Frederick  | 29 Sep 2009 6:18 a.m. PST |
As to uses for the humble shako, apparently as well you could stash stuff in it |
| 138SquadronRAF | 29 Sep 2009 7:27 a.m. PST |
As a re-enactor the biggest advantage the hat offers is that it shades your eyes in periods where you can't wear sunglasses. If it rains the hat definitely helps. I'm not a great fan of the forage cap or kepi – the eyes are shaded but if you're not careful you get sunburn on the top of the ears. The shako has similar problems. Whilst the tricorn looks stylish it doesn't offer much protect. |
| The Jim Jones Cocktail Hour | 29 Sep 2009 10:36 a.m. PST |
Ok well try my home experiment and tell me if you think someone designed a felt hat with protection in mind. Tricornes and bicornes didn't suddenly arrive because someone planned a uniform, they evolved from existing head wear. |
| firstvarty1979 | 29 Sep 2009 12:08 p.m. PST |
The "cocked hat" of the American Revolutionary War period developed from the Tricorn, but was an irregular triangle with the front corner over the left eye, and the left side of the hat almost perpendicular to the front of the body. This was done, it is said, to allow for more room for a musket to be carried on the left side and so as not to bump into the hat. Note the difference: "Cocked Hat" link "Tricorn" picture Though my cocked hat is stiff with age, I wouldn't test it against a sword blow! |
| capncarp | 02 Oct 2009 5:27 p.m. PST |
The first modern helmet in the French Army in WWI was a mess-bowl being carried inside the crown of a kepi--this arrangement saved one poilu from a nasty head wound and inspired a trend for serious cranial armor in the 20th century. |
| Virginia Tory | 02 Oct 2009 6:43 p.m. PST |
Tricorns and cocked hats are both equally useless at keeping the sun off. |
| DAWGIE | 03 Oct 2009 8:47 a.m. PST |
well let me see; it was pretty common among veteran soldiers in the age of floppy hats and even earlier, to wear an iron or leather skull cap under or inside of the hat crown to add protection from sword cuts. this tradion was carried on thru the era of tricornes by some soldiers, notably officers.
leather helmets provided some protection from sword cuts and clubbed weapons. they were also used as "pillows" and storage places for small valubles.
shakos also served the above functions plus made generally short soldiers look taller.
later cork helmets were issued as protection from the sun and rain, not for defensive uses.
as for the boffins in the lab debunking the heat loss through your head in cold weather, i would suggest they actually do so in field conditions, then come back and tell me they did not get cold (i saw an interesting infra red film of a "cone" of heat loss from the top of an exposed head in artic and in marine conditions way back when i was a troop). i know i was colder without any sort of head protection in cold weather conditions long before i saw said film.
ditto for hotter in tropical or desert areas, to say nothing of avoiding serious and painful sunburn from exposure.
the fore and aft cap, aka garrison cap, was originally designed to be worn in the field in warm or cold weather (it had fold down earflaps, that folded up in warm weather).
any soldier knows that the small of the back is where y'all store your garrison cap, field cap or beret when it is not on your noggin.
just like the top of your socks is the place to tote a wallet and cigarette/matches when in uniform and looking "STRAC ".
DAWGIE
|
| Andy ONeill | 04 Oct 2009 3:12 a.m. PST |
I recommend straw hats to anyone spending any time outdoors in summer. The sort which have lots of holes for ventilation are best. |
| Xthlightbob | 10 Oct 2009 9:49 a.m. PST |
In the field we (47th Regiment of Foot Reenacted) wear flop hats turned up on the left side to provide clearance for a shouldered musket. The hat provides protection from rain and sun. But that is not the reason we ALWAYS wear a hat. I do not have a citation handy, but in 1778 at least, one was considered the equivalent of naked, if outdoors without a hat. |
| CooperSteveOnTheLaptop | 20 Oct 2009 8:12 a.m. PST |
"Don't hats make your head hotter in summer?" All manner of useful facts to be learnt on TMP, but who'd thought furry hats keep you warm & brimmed hats keep you cool? Amazing! |
| essayons7 | 20 Oct 2009 11:36 a.m. PST |
I agree with Scott. Headgear was initially devised to protect the wearer from the environment, and also from the enemy. As history progressed, the protection from the enemy part tended to fall away, relegating the headgear (with the obvious exception of helmets) to a position of uniformity/style rather than protection. |
| WarpSpeed | 24 Oct 2009 7:35 p.m. PST |
As a war of 1812 reinactor i must comment on the stove pipe shako,the heavy leather brim shields your eyes nicely ,if you turn down the inner leather flap there is some protection from the elements.The crown will bowl with age ,a perfect place for water to collect and fall conveniently onto your musket while reloading(if your lucky enough to still be shooting).The heavy brass front plate is a wonderfull place to safely store your spork combi-utensil and or clay pipe.I have stitched a small money bag into the linnen liner though one might place a light billfold therein.Many would say that using a hat for stowage is heresy to period authenticity,soldiers are generally creative and innovative
.my thoughts. |
| Supercilius Maximus | 25 Oct 2009 4:42 a.m. PST |
<<Many would say that using a hat for stowage is heresy to period authenticity,soldiers are generally creative and innovative
.my thoughts.>> Not inauthentic at all. The Bavarian raupenhelm of the same era was used by NCOs to store paybooks and other paperwork. At a later date, I believe that all ranks used the crown of the helmet as an unofficial storage place for the mess tin (it is possible someone may even tried to re-design the mess tin to fit in there). |
| WarpSpeed | 25 Oct 2009 10:09 p.m. PST |
Thank you,i will share that with my regimental authenticity officer.Reinacting can shed modern insights to old problems,but more important ,enlighten us to what they did over and above regulation.I think every 1 would be pleasantly amused.British section 1812 ,2 men sleep 2 up ,ok ,of 8 men rotating kitchen duty
..i ask wheres the utility knife.Strict guys say none issued,cant have 1
.cant fillet fish or venison with a period bayonet.A sharp large cutting edge tool needed..voila soldiers will find 1. |