"Conversation w/ Borg...CnC Naps" Topic

"He posted it on CSW…"

What is CSW? Care to provide a link?

"Things should be identified as what they are."

Agreed.

"Why are you so insistent on it NOT being a board game?"

Sheer contrariness probably. (I appear to be renowned for such here on TMP!). I happen to like BC and IMHO it doesn't exhibit the classic aspects of a board wargame – lots of little cardboard counters arrayed in piles on a board with fixed terrain markings for a specific battle.

"The matter first came up in reference to other board game designers besides Mr. Borg and then you proceeded to argue it was a miniatures game, not a board game."

You only mentioned ONE other designer.
You haven't answered my question – what is the difference, board game with miniatures or miniatures game played on a board?

>What is CSW?

A place where board wargames are discussed. And where C&C:A is supported.

>You haven't answered my question – what is the difference, board game with miniatures or miniatures game played on a board?

Board wargames come self-contained and are played on a board. Most miniatures rules require additional purchases and are not generally played on a board unless the player supplies one himself. Which isn't really germane to the original point.

"A place where board wargames are discussed. And where C&C:A is supported."

Never heard of it. What's the link?

"Board wargames come self-contained and are played on a board. Most miniatures rules require additional purchases and are not generally played on a board unless the player supplies one himself."

That doesn't actually answer the question I asked, does it?

So, in your opinion the difference is entirely to do with the packaging rather than the game mechanics. A strange way to categorise games, don't you think?

"Which isn't really germane to the original point."

Seeing as the point was whether Battle Cry is a board game or not, it is entirely germane.

According to your definition, Battle Cry is indeed a board game. But what about using the Napoleonic mod I linked to earlier – with additional rules and figures not included in the original game? By your definition THAT is a miniatures game!! Same mechanics, same board, but one is a board game and the other a miniatures game …

>But what about using the Napoleonic mod I linked to earlier – with additional rules and figures not included in the original game? By your definition THAT is a miniatures game!!

Except the Nap mod is just a mod to an existing board game.

"Except the Nap mod is just a mod to an existing board game."

Er … not quite. It is a set of wargames rules. The fact that it is a mod to a "board game" is neither here nor there. It meets your definition:

"Most miniatures rules require additional purchases and are not generally played on a board unless the player supplies one himself."

In this case the "additional purchase" is the Battle Cry board game and the Napoleonic wargames figures.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions:
1. What is the URL for SW?
2. What is the difference between a board game with miniatures or a miniatures game played on a board?

Mike,

link

If a "miniatures" game is sold so as to be played on a board it isn't a miniatures game as a rule.

>In this case the "additional purchase" is the Battle Cry board game and the Napoleonic wargames figures.

I can only hope you are playing at being serious on this one.

Oh Consim World! Why didn't you say so the first time?

I was however kinda hoping you'd give me a link to the specific thread you referenced, I don't have time to search the whole site.

"If a "miniatures" game is sold so as to be played on a board it isn't a miniatures game as a rule."

Since when has that been a rule? Aren't all miniatures games played on a board?

BTW, you still haven't answered my questions …

"I can only hope you are playing at being serious on this one."

???

>BTW, you still haven't answered my questions …

Actually I did.

>Since when has that been a rule?

Check page 3…

>Aren't all miniatures games played on a board?

Not one provided by the game…

Admit it, you're trying to have fun here and have ceased being at all serious. Right???

>BTW, you still haven't answered my questions …

Actually I did.

Well, you gave the root URL for CSW, but not the URL for the thread where you got the quote.
I have not seen an answer to my 2nd question though.

>Since when has that been a rule?

Check page 3…

I beg your pardon? We're only on page 2 so far! (Or are you referring to partially clothed ladies? )

>Aren't all miniatures games played on a board?

Not one provided by the game…

So what? It's still a board isn't it?

ad infinitum…

So do I take it from your lack of response that you cannot substantiate your quote, ostensibly by Richard Borg: "Thanks for sharing in the enjoyment of a boardgame" ?

Also that you agree that there is no difference between a board game with miniatures or a miniatures game played on a board?

Fair enough.

Actually what it means is I'm fairly confident that any reasonable people still reading this exchange will have concurred with me and if they're unreasonable I'm not that concerned with their conclusion.

>So do I take it from your lack of response that you cannot substantiate your quote, ostensibly by Richard Borg: "Thanks for sharing in the enjoyment of a boardgame" ?

But as I've already given you the source of the quote and even gave you a link I don't think I need to hold your hand any more on that one.

"But as I've already given you the source of the quote and even gave you a link"

No you haven't. All you have given is a link to Consim World, and a claim that your Borg quote is somewhere on that site. No evidence whatsoever that it is a genuine quote. I am therefore forced to conclude that the quote does not exist, since you either cannot or will not prove that it does.

>No you haven't. All you have given is a link to Consim World, and a claim that your Borg quote is somewhere on that site. No evidence whatsoever that it is a genuine quote. I am therefore forced to conclude that the quote does not exist, since you either cannot or will not prove that it does.

That seems rather dim. Are you such a helpless babe in the woods that I need to go and do a search for you?

Tell you what, I'll even hold your hand for you. It was in the C&C Ancients folder quite recently after I noted over there your failure to grasp that a board game is a board game.

Let me change your nappy for you.

Here:

link

Truly remarkable that someone wants to argue that C&C:A isn't a board game.

>>I am therefore forced to conclude that the quote does not exist

And this appears to be as accurate as you get…

Let me change your nappy for you.

Here:

How kind. As I said, I don't have time to search for a link, when you obvioiusly knew where it was and the CSW forum does not provide a search tool. And Google didn't pick it up either.

Truly remarkable that someone wants to argue that C&C:A isn't a board game.

Now hang on a minute!
I have never said that C&C:A was not a board game.
C&C:A doesn't have miniatures, only those wooden block things.
OTOH Battle Cry does have miniatures.

Perhaps now you see why I insisted you supply the actual link. All along you have given the impression that Borg was talking about Battle Cry in that quote, when in fact he was talking about C&C:A!!

Nice try, David, but you really should pay more attention to the subject in hand.

I was especially interested to see your post on that thread on 7th October (which in part triggered Borg's response you quoted):
"Of course you can go on TMP and find someone who insists that C&C:A is a miniatures game, not a board game."
link
- where you completely misrepresented my position. Thanks.

I also noticed that several other posters on that thread agree that the distinction between miniatures game and board game (particularly in the case of Borg's games) is blurred and some suggested that they are hybrid miniatures/board games. Unlike you.

And (of course) you still haven't answered the 2nd question.

BTW before you try and throw this comment back at me:

"IMHO, Battle Cry (and any derivative therefrom) is not a board game. It is played with miniatures. It has been discussed here before."

The key phrase in that comment is "is played with miniatures". C&C:A is not played with miniatures so is not a miniatures game. Of course, As Borg himself has said:
"Truth be know, every one of your Commands & Colors: Ancients scenarios were played with miniatures"
link
it then IS a miniatures game.

Which all comes back to that 2nd question:
2. What is the difference between a board game with miniatures or a miniatures game played on a board?

BTW (again) if it helps, MY definition of a miniatures game is any game played with miniatures. Simple huh?

>Nice try, David, but you really should pay more attention to the subject in hand.

Most ironic statement of the year. Of course there are a couple more months to go but your position is pretty safe.

>Nice try, David, but you really should pay more attention to the subject in hand.

Most ironic statement of the year. Of course there are a couple more months to go but your position is pretty safe.

??? The subject in hand is a Napoleonic variant of Battle Cry. (Notice the thread title: "Conversation w/ Borg…CnC Naps").

You were the one that first mentioned C&C:A.

All my comments have been related to Battle Cry, a Napoleonic variant thereof and whether or not BC is a board game.

Of course, if all you can do now is make facetious comments …

BTW, how about answering Question 2?

Ad infinitum…

"Ad infinitum…"

Meaning, I take it, that you agree there is NO difference between a board game with miniatures or a miniatures game played on a board.