"Why dont........" Topic

Why dont rules makers come up with more elaborate background……Like I know generic rules are awesome and everything, but I like alot of "fluff" besides the crunch. I like things like the Tuffleyverse and such, but wish there was more, if you get me. Also why not more hombrew fluff like people do for 40k, with their 23 cadian blah blah 20 page manifesto on their regiment/chapter/craftworld whatnaught….Maybe coming from a 40k/BFG background has made me more addicted to background than others, but I reall enjoy reading it. Often times I buy rules, rpgs, just for the background, and I wish more sci-fi rules makers did things like that.

Well, for generic rules they tend not to focus on fluff. Starmada has a developed universe and it's fairly popular. Frankly, I doubt how many players of generic sets really want fluff. Most of my ships are Trek, B5, Bsg, Star Wars or Full Thrust. All have developed backgrounds. I just want the rules which can handle my ships.

Thanks,

John

the problem with fluff is then you have to go and design all the ships/figures to go with all that fluff and most small companies simply can't afford it.

Lets face it fluff costs money….

Not only that, but it will be hard to please so many varied tastes in backgrounds, so that could actually discourage a large majority of sales, rather than helping to increase them.

Yep – as a practical matter fluff is likely to cost sales not gain them, as for every person that goes "neat" there'll be 2 or 3 thinking "oh, it's for their own background, so no good for my games of x"…. As a large number of SF gamers are wanting to play with already-established backgrounds, generic is usually the way to go,

You want Fluff and Crunch…?
You Got It:
link

It doesn't get much Fluffier than this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorverse
Nor much Crunchier than This:
link
link

Oh…. you want it Generic, too..?
Fluff, Crunch, _and_ nougat-ey goodness..?
grumblegrumblejusnopleasinsomepeoplesgrumbegrumble

I have heard that many people use their…

picture

…Imagi-NA-tion.

I strongly disagree about fluff with rules. I have never liked more then a few paragraphs, except in places like Call of Cthulhu where they are reprinting a respected short story. Generally, the fluff in rules is worse than the paperback section at the library.

Yeah. I hate fluff. I want to build my own imaginary universe not play in someone else's. So much my own in fact I hate when my friend brings something into the game that I don't agree with.

Does make SF/Fantasy game more problematic than historicals.

I find the bleakness of the 40K universe a huge turn off.

Fluff is good. Stargrunt/Full Thrust/Dirtside has fluff- it is plainly and clearly labeled as "optional", and that's how I treat it. I don't know that the author was too put out by coming up with the fluff; a few "world specific" illustrations and/or photos of the world's own minis in action add some cost, but I expect ANY rules set I don't download for free odd Free Wargames Rules to have a bit of flash.

Science fiction has more than a century of great backgrounds. No need to make up more. The the rule designers write rules and the fiction writers write stories.

Curious thought Joe.

A system without fluff…usually this comes to fruit because there were enough players who were saying "hey how about a system without all that fluff so I can use whatever I want?".

There will always be the call for background, more story, not any story just system, etc.. Just as there will be the call for non-humanoid aliens…but in reality it comes down to sales potential.

To have a great story with real potential to build a system around requires (usually) a book or a series of books that establish this setting and then the game designers need to pay said author/IP holder for the right to use the money name and ideas connected with the same.

So IMO take a good system and add your favorite story or create your own…best of both worlds.

Believe me, getting the masses to like that one thing that you like is something of a lost cause in most cases…because if it was popular then lots of people would like what you like…and it is ok to have a particular like or dislike, it is that which makes us all unique…(I hear music and see rainbows :)

Seriously, find a system that you like and overlay your favorite story onto it…the good thing about homebrewing is that you know exactally what went into the brew.

I'm fine with fluff… especially when it's interesting/inspiring… but usually it's just kinda 'meh'.
Most of the time I'm gonna use the rules in my own setting anyway so fluff is irrelevant.

Allen, do dou mean Sponge Bob wargames? Why isn't he in the poll of gaming against celebrities, then?

…Imagi-NA-tion.

Fascinating sounding concept, please expand…
--
Tim

I like a barebones fluff that allows me to fill in the gaps – some general political vagueness and a timeline of major battles and I'm away !

Well, for FAD4 we're working on a sample setting that people can use if they like.

Most generic rules in fact do have some fluff, I think. Of course the problem with the miniature gaming background material in general tends to be precisely that it can indeed be called "fluff", being as it is often pretty lightweight for "fiction". In the context, Squadron Strike, GZG games and Defiance: Vital Ground are examples that do have fairly extensive, well written and believable backgrounds, despite being generic.

Ideal presentation for me in army list games – Army list, units list, fluff. Whether its far future or WWII (well the latter is almost more believable). For me its the game mechanics I'm interested in, fluff is a bonus.

I think the solution for small companies is to make fluff optional and not include it in the core rules, or make it generic enough that other visions of the same genres can fit in anyway.
This is what I plan to do with my Mutants and Death Ray Guns rules. The core book is a bit of a nostalgic dead ringer for the old Gamma World setting but it's not written anywhere in the rules,it's just that the kind of figures you end up using would look good in any cheesy post holocaust science fantasy setting. The supplements will add bits of fluff (mostly written by other authors as I suck at writing fluff)that pertain to specific areas of the world, so if you want to play in the Living Forest of 2250 AD Central Europe you can, but if you want to avoid talking plants and shifting scenery (the hills are alive in a literal sense) you can play in other parts of the world where different disasters happened… the only common denominator is that the world has we knew it has been destroyed and mankind is now iliving in a mad, barbaric world with mutants and malfunctioning firearms :-)

ganeshagames.blogspot.com

Just write your own if you want it.
The same with the fleet descriptions. That's what the generic stuff is for.

I agree with the majority, I perfer that there either not be any in the rules (since I can make up what I wish), or a minimal amount.

Minimimal fluff for me too, please.

True is, most "game designers" that try to write "short stories" to fill the odd page of the rulebook, usually do a less than acceptable work.

And this days, it seems ALL COMPANIES are in the road to: "my setting is more dark, more gothic, more chaotic, more savage than yours". And in the end, it all turns to be really silly and childish.

And I want to use my minis of any company to play the games I like, so I don't care if this or that company *cough*GW*cough* says that I CAN'T USE their minis for other games, or use uther miniatures (most of the time cheapers, ans some times even better sculpted), I'll do it anyway.

Best wishes.

I generally prefer coming up with my own 'fluff' so generic or fluff-light settings work for me!

-Will

With G.O.B.S.! (Generic Outlandishly Big Spacefleets) I opted for "generic" fluff for a reason: I wanted players to be able to imagine whatever they wanted. As G.O.B.S.! is also intended to be a somewhat "over the top" space opera system (lots of ships, lots of explosions), I went for deliberately over-the-top descriptions of generic space opera tropes in the races and factions— like "Amazonians, Boneheads, Evil Tyrant Lackeys, Freedom FIghters, Do-Gooders, Drones," etc.. This allows the players to insert their preferred setting, which they probably want to do anyway.

As it is, I often find a certain level of absurdity in many fluff backgrounds developed for games, in no small part because of the need to make all factions equal—for "balance—" as well as equally appealing—for sales. (40K, anyone?) At some point such things don't pass my "yeah, right" test— often sooner rather than later. Generic allows me to conceive of a story that makes sense to me, as opposed to trying to follow the logic of something that, in the end, really isn't all that logical.

--- Howard Shirley, creator of Generic Outlandishly Big Spacefleets!
thegobspage.com

While this thread doesn't really show it (yet), I think it's the (perceived) need to cater to both the "fluffies" and the "rulies" that makes it the industry standard to shoehorn some fluff into the rules (rather like most miniature manufacturers seem to end up making a game to go with their minis, I suppose). I do know of people who say fluff is crucial… And then again, fluff can also be used as a vehicle to describe what style of games the game is geared towards. I understand this to be rather the case with Defiance fluff, for example.

Well, let's look at it from a creativity standpoint: I'll bet you good money that every sculptor has a background in mind when he's creating a *set* of minis.

That's the only way you can keep a consistent image for the entire range, after all.

So, why are we surprised when some of this background story shows up either on the manufacturer's website or even in the rules?

Having a background, or script if you will, for your minis is IMHO rather different from actually going through the process of developing a game to go with the minis. Tho as I tend to focus on the gaming aspect of "miniature gaming" I probably see this as an overtly serious effort -- people who focus on the other word may not see it that way.

If you want great background for generic rules, then hunt out some great sci-fi books.