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"Rules With No "Clear Explanation"." Topic


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1,033 hits since 25 Sep 2009
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Comments or corrections?

wingnut25 Sep 2009 9:46 a.m. PST

My group keeps having a strange situation happen in the Dueling rules for TRWNN and I was wondering how you guys handle it or if you have run into it. Our group has been playing for about a year and our English to English translation of the rules may be a bit off so any help would be appreciated.

Most duels go off without a hitch; the problem appears when someone blazes away and runs out of ammo and in some cases both figures are left staring at each other with empty guns. The rules read the duel goes on till someone gets knocked down, knocked out or killed. If none of these happen they go back to the fast draw and continue. If a figure blazes away and rolls poorly he is out of ammo and the opportunity to reload comes before the fast draw segment at the beginning of the duel. Did we miss something?


Wingnut
First Citizen of Beaverlick, WY.

aecurtis Fezian25 Sep 2009 9:48 a.m. PST

"…both figures are left staring at each other with empty guns."

Probably the most likely outcome of an actual street duel. Retire to the saloon and start over.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP25 Sep 2009 9:55 a.m. PST

You are letting the rules replace logic.
OBVIOUSLY, with empty guns, it cannot continue.
Honor was satisfied, so they both retire to Brokeback Mountain for some sheep raising.

Paul Hurst25 Sep 2009 9:58 a.m. PST

Poor sheep!

wingnut25 Sep 2009 10:10 a.m. PST

"Did we miss something?"
besides each other that is…….

quidveritas25 Sep 2009 10:12 a.m. PST

John has it right. They need to reload. Then they can start shooting again if that's what's in the cards!

mjc

wingnut25 Sep 2009 10:23 a.m. PST

The duel seems to happen out side of the cards. When it begins it appears to resolve itself and then game play continues with the next card right?

Jovian125 Sep 2009 10:24 a.m. PST

Of course – standing their re-loading and getting shot with your cylinder down would be most embarassing. If there is a duel and both fighters "run out of ammo" at the same time without killing each other, I say role-play it – what would you do? Dive for cover to reload? Charge and beat the guy up in a brawl? Draw your knife?

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP25 Sep 2009 10:33 a.m. PST

Of course if this is a TV or movie duel, there is never a need to reload. That is, unless the script calls for it.

Top Gun Ace25 Sep 2009 11:01 a.m. PST

I submit the following rule for your enjoyment, or not, depending upon the outcome to your gun battle(s).

When reloading, each side selects a D6 die, and secretly chooses how many shots they want to reload, before firing again, e.g. 1 – 6, by placing the die under their cupped hand, and uncovering it at the same time as his opponent (upward facing surface is the number of rounds you wish to reload).

For NPC's, you can just roll a D6 randomly in order to determine how many rounds they want to attempt to load, before firing.

They then roll a separate D6 die, and add the result to the number of shots selected for reloading.

Low die wins initiative (gets to fire first), and the difference between the two rolls is the number of shots the initiative winner gets to fire at his unmoving opponent, who if he is smart, will be crouching down to present a smaller target.

If players wish to move while reloading, they can do so at a walk, but only reload half as quickly, while still suffering the full penalty for reloading, e.g. can reload 1 bullet on a 2, 2 bullets on a 4, and 3 bullets on a 6 (on a D6). Only even numbers count, in terms of initiative, while moving, since the reload time is slowed while moving.

Note, this may permit the reloading character to gain some cover, e.g. behind a barrel, or water trough; getting to the corner of a building; getting inside a building, etc.

Firing takes place, as normal. Ties are just that, and permit each gunfighter to fire at the same time.

Example, Black Burt and Willy the Kid are in a gunfight, but since both have been drinking heavily, neither is shooting up to snuff.

Both have fired at each other, emptying their guns, but all of their bullets have missed.

They then attempt to reload.

Black Burt, being a heavy drinker in the past, is less affected than the Kid judgment-wise, by the alcohol. He decides to reload just two bullets in his gun, in order to try to get off the first shot.

The Kid, on the otherhand, decides to fully reload his gun with six shots, since his aim has been so poor, he wants to have a full load of ammo for the next round. He crouches down, while reloading, to present a smaller target to his opponent, since no cover is within reach at walking speed.

Burt selects 2 bullets, for a 2, and rolls a 3 on the D6, for a result of 5 = 2 bullets, plus 3 for the random die roll (2 + 3 = 5).

The Kid, being younger, and despite his drunk condition reloads quickly, with the following result 6 bullets, plus a one for the random die roll = 7 (6 + 1).

Comparing the two results, Burt has a 5, so gets for fire first, and the Kid has a 7; therefore Burt gets to fire 2 shots at the Kid, before he can return fire (5 and 6 is lower than 7).

If Burt had chosen to reload three bullets, he would still get to fire first (result of 6), for the first round/bullet, and then additional shots would be simultaneous with the Kid's firing, e.g. 6 is lower than 7 for the first shot; and 6 + 1 (for the second bullet = 7) which ties with the Kid's first shot.

Burt's chances to hit Willy still aren't good, due to his drunken condition, and the fact that the Kid is crouching down. He normally would hit on a 9+ at this range, in his condition, but Willy gets a +1 modifier to the die roll for crouching, thus becoming a smaller target (Burt needs a 10+ on 2D6 to hit).

Burt rolls a 7 on his first shot, using 2D6, missing Willy.

On his second unopposed shot, he rolls a 12 on the 2D6, finally hitting Willy, as he continues to reload his revolver.

I'll leave it to you to determine the outcome, using your own rules.

It sounds complicated to explain, but in practice should be relatively simple, once you do it a couple of times.

Enjoy!


Best regards,

Rob

wingnut25 Sep 2009 11:14 a.m. PST

We have resolved each battle on an individual basis with players satisfied with the final outcome. It just happens so frequently with no notation in the book, I guessed we just were doing something in the rules wrong.

quidveritas25 Sep 2009 12:03 p.m. PST

If you want to add some added realism, see if either participant soils his paints -- probably better chance of this than you think.

Individuals finding themselves in a socially unacceptable condition must retire to the nearest out house!

mjc

wingnut25 Sep 2009 12:09 p.m. PST

Terrement,
Thanks.


Quid,
I always kind of deemed a gun fight to be a "socially unacceptable condition"

Mr Brightside25 Sep 2009 1:09 p.m. PST

Wingnut, sounds like resolving individually would work bet (unless of course you are in a highly cometetive environment where everyone wants an even playing field). Old West gaming is all about character and individuality so each character would behave differently as everyone has mentioned. I did give what we do on the yahoo group but I think I will consider what you all have said also.

Thanks,

ALV

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Sep 2009 4:17 a.m. PST

Kyote has the plan!

Thanks,

John

Top Gun Ace26 Sep 2009 9:31 a.m. PST

Assuming you can afford another, and/or still one when someone isn't looking.

That may get you into the gunfight faster than you expected.

Mr Brightside26 Sep 2009 1:44 p.m. PST

In the days before metal cartridge ammo became available (prior to 1873) a lot of gunfighters carried two weapons because guns were so slow to reload.

Woolshed Wargamer27 Sep 2009 11:30 p.m. PST

Well. In a game of RWNN a few months back the big slaughter ended up with my guy facing another player's character in a showdown. I won the fast draw and promptly rolled a 'gun jams'. She grabbed the dice and had her turn and rolled 'gun jams'. Then it was down to cards to see who either got reloaded or to their long-arms first. My guy got his scattergun and fired both barrels and missed! I am not sure how but he did. Her guy wasn't so unlucky and the game ended with my guy drilled by a single shot from a Winchester 44.

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