"The Best Thing About Flames of War is..." Topic

Well?

Widely available, excellent models and a terrific resource in their web site. And far more people playing WW II, at least in my area.

Being into FoW means you get better value from your Wargames Illustrated subscription.

Its WWII?

The qualitative differences are easily handled, and you don't need a 2 inch thick binder to resolve each shot.

The game happily allows you to use any models you want to, even in sanctioned tournaments. I guess they are happy to make money on the books too.
This allows other companies to cash in and sell stuff too. Win win.
The lists allow some weird stuff, and the company makes them too. Since you can use anyone's miniatures, this means that other companies can make them too, knowing they will sell.
This means the Flames of War is good for ALL 15mm WW2 manufacturers.

It's fun, and got me collecting and playing WW2, which I would have thought impossible.

It seems to be attracting younger games into the historical side of the hobby.

One of the local GW shops in town recently started carrying and pushing FOW and a number of the 40k crowd has joined in the fun and started collecting and painting. Of course, we have a historicals based FLGS and its carried FOW for years. Battleforge Games (the GW shop) is running an escalation league that has about 16 players. Once they get up to 1500 points the old guard based out of GreatHall Games should challenge them to a FOW smackdown

Long story short, FOW is a game with a wide appeal.

Dave

The fluff is superb in FOW.

It is almost as well developed and believable as Middle-earth.

Ahem to both John and Fritz – I don't play it, never played it, but it seems to have a good line of minis and is attracting as noted younger gamers to historical gamers, so I think it's good

Plus, when my misguided friends give me FOW minis for my birthday, I can say "thank you" and send them on people who will use them

That I'm still not playing it.

For those of us who were previously untutored in the ways of WWII wargames the books provided fairly complete organisation and painting info without having to amass a library of expensive and difficult to find sources. I play both FoW and BKC using the same 10mm miniatures and find them both to be enjoyable games but I would never have even thought about playing BKC if I hadn't picked up a copy of FoW at a show somewhere. As for the fluff, meh! fluff is everywhere but the information in the supplements is superb and difficult to find in a single source elsewhere.

Echoing others…

1) It gets new blood into the hobby.

2) It is a fairly complete system. Books, miniatures.

3) Lots of online support. Painting articles. Tactics articles etc.

1. The plays rather quickly. For a person with limited
gaming time it is a boon.

2. The books.(too counter the complaint on the other post)
They have updated the Midwar Africa book. It is a leap
ahead of the old one. The book was originally released
in 1st edition. Most times you can bring in your old
book and get a discount or a free intel book when you buy
the revised edition.(I have never seen anyone do that)

3. Customer Service. I have had few problems with BF product
but if there was it was resolved quickly.

4. A reasonable price point. I can get into the game for
under a $100. USD The Tiger box set and a mini rule book
bought on ebay or any online retailer.

5. BF releasing lists for free on their websites. Complete
with points. So, you don't even have to buy an intel book
to start playing.

"The game happily allows you to use any models you want to,"

Surely you can't seriously consider that a plus. It is something that is the norm for every other set of historical rules. Nobody says about BKC, or Rapid Fire, or any other set of WW2 rules "it's great 'cos you can use any figures you like".

Mark, that IS a plus, when you compare it to GW. GW fans, or indeed MOST brand name fantsy or scifi gamers brought into historicals fully expect that they can only play with miniatures made by the Great Satan. Not so. Please read the rest of what I said, where I say that any manufacturer benefits from it.
A popular set of rules (in any genre) is a plus for all manufacturers.

If this were a SYW game we were talking about, my comment would indeed be irrelevant. However, this is the 500 pound gorilla, and widely believed to be a gateway drug for historicals.
So, yes I am serious that it is a plus.

The popular exposure to historical minis strikes me as a great attribute. Regardless of historical accuracy or technical detail, it is an inviting introduction to a part of the hobby that many would otherwise not be exposed to.

and on a side note…

"The game happily allows you to use any models you want to,"

Ironically, this is the issue that kept me from gaming with the local FOW community. I had 1600 infantry and several hundred vehicles for 5 nations when the local store started carrying FOW, but was informed that I could not use miniatures made by other manufacturers in FOW games. I know that this is not the position of FOW, the locals were raised on the GW hobby.

Newcomers.
The models.
15mm scale.
Painting references.

Their books are kind of fun to flip through.

…GW Methadone…

I can purchase a Battlefront infantry paltoon and have all the figures I need to actually field the platoon. not having to worry about buying one of that, or two of this, is a BIG plus for me.

Don't play it, but generally speaking, FoW games have some of the nicest looking tables and figures I've seen at conventions.

The convenient packaging of forces based on various TO&Es seems like it would be a good thing for a newcomer, too.

I dont play FOW either. But it has brought a good line of figures and vehicles with it, most of which are very well designed.

I think some of the players may go on to other Historical Wargames, even though most seem to have a predeliction to the weird and wonderful parameters of the hobby. Any gain of new players to historicals is positive as so many of the proponents of that are getting old.

It encourages players to make their scenic layouts look nice and to take pride in the presentation of their armies.

"Ironically, this is the issue that kept me from gaming with the local FOW community. I had 1600 infantry and several hundred vehicles for 5 nations when the local store started carrying FOW, but was informed that I could not use miniatures made by other manufacturers in FOW games"

I have an e-mail from Phil Yates stating that their policy is that one can use non-BF products. The one time someone attempted to pull the neo-GW policy on me, I bet him sodas for everyone – and then pulled out the printout of the e-mail. I was quite popular that day.

But, to the reasons:

• Ability to find opponents. This is important after having Tractics but not able to get in a game for 20 years.

• Great support – the product is well supported, staff will answer questions in a friendly manner and parts replacement is not difficult.

• 1 to 1 representation – not this "3 vehicles are actually a platoon of 5 tanks" silliness.

• Some history – the TO&E's and equipment has a foundation in history, and the books offer some education as well. The rules are an abstraction, of course, but they're eminently more playable than other systems I've seen.

Wyatt

Now, this might be a little off the beaten track, but . . .

Every time I've seen people playing FoW at the game store or at the few cons I've attended recently they looked like they were having FUN.

Plays fairly fast

Easily accessible to my FLGS and my club

I get gaming stuff for my birthday now as my family can find it

20 odd guys in the club play it with a degree of regularity

Books and lists are fun to flip through

If the TMP bug hit you in the morning and you discovered it thought you were the editor, what threads would you start?

;-)

It's an easy to pick up game.

<quote> 1 to 1 representation – not this "3 vehicles are actually a platoon of 5 tanks" silliness. </quote>

Oooh, this is a good one! I recall playing a game at a local store in which 1 vehicle represented 2 tanks or something. Not the sort of game I want to play (how does one build a company of 17 tanks? Let alone a platoon of 5?).

Other good things: the vehicles are usually fairly decent (makes the best Shermans I have found yet, though the actual figures IMHO need a lot of work. Rules are accessible.

I want to disagree with some of the comments about "fluff." The BF products "fluff" offer what I call "entry level history" for the players. That is, a broad overview. If they're still interested, THEN they can go read Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Damon.

"They have updated the Midwar Africa book. It is a leap
ahead of the old one. The book was originally released
in 1st edition."

Nope. "For King and Country", "Desert Rats", "Desert Fox", "Avanti Savoia", "Stars & Stripes", "Old Ironsides", and "Diving Eagles" were the first edition books with lists for North Africa. Then second edition came out, and PDF upgrades were provided for the supplements. And *then* these were combined (more or less) into "Afrika", just as "Stalingrad", "Hitler's Fire Brigade", and "Za Stalina" were wrapped into "Ostfront".

"Most times you can bring in your old book and get a discount or a free intel book when you buy the revised edition.(I have never seen anyone do that)"

MOST times? How many times has something like this been done? The was the free mini-rulebook for those who had purchased a first-edition rulebook, when the second edition came out. There was a choice of a free campaign supplement for owners of "Festung Europa" when "Fortress Europe" came out. That's it. No similar promotion for the error-riddled "North Africa".

Allen

The books make nice painting guides / organizational tables for TOE.

mjc

I'm assuming the figures work well with the Gear Krieg mechs… which is good for me since I'm thinking of getting into Gear Krieg and there is FOW stuff on the shelves here.

I like the minis,
to bad they are not 28mm

I like the game because the fast play allows us to burn through many turns in an evening. It's common for us to play 10 or more turns in a night. That means each player makes a lot of decisions appropriate to the command level they are representing – i.e. a company commander. So instead of worrying about piddly detail, we are thinking about which platoon to send where, who gets the artillery support, when to commit the company reserve, etc.

We play historical (or at least historically plausible) scenarios with appropriately matched equipment and have always had reasonable historical outcomes. Any of the extra goofy rules can easily be ignored or modified to suit.

Later

Brian

The folks at Battlefront aren't a bunch of proprietary jerks when it comes to using other manufacturers figures in tournaments.

The online downloadable Intel Handbooks are very nice. The Polish 1st Armored Div is my first FOW army and will remain so for quite some time.

Anyhoo Salut y'all!

The minis. Well, except for the infantry with bloated heads, hands and weapons…..

Excellent online support.

My boy loves it.

They generally show up to tournaments around here with really nice terrain. Lots of ideas there.

1) Some very good minis
2) Excellent support for the game and customer service
3) Easy to get into even if you don't know the difference between a Tommy and a Tiger.
4) Generates income for other manufacturers

I'm assuming the figures work well with the Gear Krieg mechs…

Yes, they do. I use Roundheads and Cavaliers as armoured cars. It's most satisfying watching the grognards twitch.

The best thing about FoW/Battlefront is that when they sell you an open toppped vehicle they actually give you the crew to go with it.

Most manufacturers don't.

There is a place waiting for you in heaven yet, Derek.

Yes, bur the Cool Kids laugh at my Old Glory Marder IIIs when I try to field them as Marder IIs.

John, I think you're getting fussed over nothing. I'll bet the Cool Kids won't even notice, especially if it's a Marder III H. If they do, challenge them to tell you what the differences are, without looking.

Moreover, although "Afrika" doesn't allow the Marder III H (I haven't seen "North Africa' yet, but I would hope it does. It should.), if you check Fortress Europe, you'll see that the stats for the II, III H, and III M are identical. It don't matter. The Marder III with the Soviet 7.62cm gun *is* in "Afrika" as well as FE, and it's not quite as good.

Allen

Their terrain box sets.

The books are filled with photos. The rules are clearly written and pretty simple to learn and play.

That none of my friends think it is worth a tinker's cuss

The rules are playable, with inspiring photos of nicely painted minis. If not for FOW I would have probably never gotten into WWII miniatures gaming. I have moved on though, having grown tired of their GW type business model and constant revisions to the rules and army lists.

The fact that the rules cover ALL the nations that fought in World War II, like the Finns, Hungarians and Rumanians.

Unlike certain other rules sets that didn't include include the British in the basic set….

Bangorstu wrote:

The fact that the rules cover ALL the nations that fought in World War II

Japanese? Chinese?

Or do they not count?