"Looking for anwers to odd Plains war questions" Topic

I have been doing alot of reading on the Plains Wars, and got really interested in some strange oddities. I have found to no avail the answers to these and other odd questions. For now I am looking for the answer to two following questions.

Lots of accounts mention tracking trails and such, in particular hoof prints of shod and unshod horses. I believe the difference is between Native American horses with no horseshoes and US cavalry horses with horseshoes? Am I correct? Can anybody point me to what the difference of the hoof prints look like on the web.

Second question
Looking into the Fetterman Massacre, it seems the wood cutting outpost was some 3-5 miles from the fort. It would seem their was closer groupings of tree growth to do this. Why and for what reason would this outpost be so far from the fort?

These readings have opened up a whole new series of questions on how and why things were done not so long ago and seem forgotten. I would love to find a book or books that had such type of information available, but so far I have been grasping for straws.

Thanks, and Iam sure more questions will follow!

Horseshoes are "U" shaped, so their tracks would look different in some soils, than horses without horseshoes on their hooves to experienced trackers.

My guess is even laymen would be able to easily tell the difference, if they knew what to look for.

Don't know about the latter question, but can guess:

- possibly a river or creek was further from the fort, which might provide power for a sawmill; or

- the trees were of a different species, or were of better quality than the close ones.

2nd Question.

I have been to the historical site and spoke with the curator. From what he said the area around the fort was stripped of vegetation for firewood. Wood cutting parties had to travel farther out to cut quality wood.

The curator also said more men died from disease and exposure at the fort than were ever killed by the Native Americans.

I can see where that would make more sense, as Dragon Gunner mentions.

Any closer trees are probably those that re-grew, or were re-planted, after the original trees were cut down to make the fort, and other buildings.

Looking into the Fetterman Massacre, it seems the wood cutting outpost was some 3-5 miles from the fort. It would seem their was closer groupings of tree growth to do this. Why and for what reason would this outpost be so far from the fort?

Because that is how far away the trees are. The site is @ 15 miles south of me. Mostly bare grass covered hills. Not much changed.

philkearny.vcn.com

Its just like Saber6 describes it. Fort Laramine was situated where it was to protect pioneers using the Bozeman trail. The lack of quality trees prevented the fort from becoming a full blown stockade. It was a collection of buildings and the actual fort was never completed.

There was a constant need of firewood for cooking and fuel to keep from freezing to death during the winter. When the garrison was not involved with escorting pioneers it was protecting wood cutting parties. The wood cutting parties were frequently contracted civilians.

The Native American strategy for dealing with Fort Laramine went something like this…

Its suicide to attack the fort each building can be converted into a blockhouse and there is long stretches of open ground to cross under rifle fire.

If we prevent the wood cutting parties from stockpiling wood the garrison will not survive the winter.

If the garrison is gone there will be no more escorts for the pioneers and they can be wiped out stopping expansion into our territory.

I hope this helps in some way. All of this was explained to me by an excited curator that was pleased to have a visitor that wanted to learn about history.

Shod:

link

unshod:
link

@ sneakgun

That's interesting. I'm glad I haven't been called upon to read tracks because I'd spend all day wondering……..

Doug

I live several hundred miles south of Phil Kearny and I've visited the site a couple times. They were cutting wood 3-5 miles away because there were pines there--trees that grow tall and straight, and make good lumber and palisades (it was a palisaded fort). A lot of what you see in gullies and low areas is scrub oak, about 8 feet tall, thin and twisty. Think natural bonsai. OK for carving tent pegs, maybe.
The demands of cooking, heating and building also would have cleared out the thin lines of trees in the bottomlands quickly, so you'd go to the forested mountains if you were serious about wood.
The fort itself was situated close to the trail and adjoining a stream which sould provide water for the garrison.
You're right--there usually are reasons for people doing what they did, but sometimes they aren't obvious.
Grelber

Any trees in the immediate vicinity of the fort should also have been removed for line of fire purposes in the event of an Indian attack.

Regarding your first question:

Yes, the White Man put shoes on their horses, and the Red Man (no offense meant) did not.

Even a tenderfoot who has never seen a horse before would be able to tell the difference between a shod and unshod horse from their tracks, once they know what to look for.

Here's the bottom of an unshod hoof:
picture

It looks like a big oval, with a long triangle shaped piece missing from the back of the hoof. As the horse walks it presses down on the ground, leaving that raised triangle shaped area uncompressed. The triangle even points in the direction the horse is moving.

Here's the bottom of a shod horse:
picture

There's now a raised rim of iron nailed to the hoof around the outer rim. When the horse walks, that big "U" shaped impression is left behind. Draw a line from the open notch in the back to the middle of the front curve to get the direction.

So there you go. If the horse(s) do you the kindness of walking in soft ground, even you can now track 'em.

Hope that helps.

There were instances in rough terrain where the Indians wrapped the feet of their horses with raw hide. One account is the Lost Valley Fight (Kiowa vs. Texas Rangers) as told to Col. Nye by Tahbonenah.

at the seige of jerusalem in ad 70 eventually wood was having to be sourced from 18km beyond the seigelines. Obviously the local garrison would have been on a smaller scale but they'd soon have disposed of the 'local' trees