"Iran lost its only AWACS" Topic

This should leave a mark. It's a bad time to go blind, eh?

Iran's AWACS destroyed in parade collision

Up above a big military parade in Tehran on Tuesday, Sept. 22, as Iranian president declared Iran's armed forces would "chop off the hands" of any power daring to attack his country, two air force jets collided in mid-air. One was Iran's only airborne warning and control system (AWACS) for coordinating long-distance aerial operations, DEBKAfile's military and Iranian sources disclose.

The proud military parade, which included a march-past, a line of Shehab-3 missiles and an air force fly-past, was planned to give Ahmadinejad a dazzling send-off for New York and add steel to his UN Assembly speech Wednesday.

Dubbed "Simorgh" (a flying creature of Iranian fable which performs wonders in mid-flight), the AWACS' appearance, escorted by fighter jets, was to have been the climax for the Iranian Air force's fly-past over the parade. Instead, it collided with one of escorting planes, a US-made F-5E, and both crashed to the ground in flames. All seven crewmen were killed.

Eye witnesses reported that the flaming planes landed on the mausoleum burial site of the Islamic revolution's founder Ruhollah Khomeini, a national shrine. According to Western observers, no distress signals came from either cockpit indicating that the collision and explosions were sudden and fast.

DEBKAfile's military sources say the disaster was a serious blow to the Iranian Air Force not long after its first and only AWACS went into service in April 2008. It was a renovated version of the Russian Ilyushin 76, part of Saddam Hussein's air force before it was transferred to Iran in 1991 during the first Gulf War.

Tehran hired Russian technicians to carry out renovations and install up-to-date radar. At the launching ceremony of the upgraded AWACS, Air Force commander Brig. Gen. Ahmad Miqani boasted its new radar systems were made in Iran and able to spot any airplane or missile at a distance of 1,000 kilometers from Iran's borders.

The loss of this airborne control system has left Iran's air force and air and missile defenses without "electronic eyes" for surveillance of the skies around its borders.

Aw, gee. That's too bad.

I love fireworks. Great way to end a parade.

Too ironic to be true.

Great way to start the new year.

Here is a link. Seems to be legit…

link

If only they'd had some way of detecting the incoming jet….

"collided with one of escorting planes, a US-made F-5E"

Now how do set an F-5 to remote control after painting it to look like an Iranian. Then we need to crash it into the tomb of ….

How long before it comes out it was all a plot of The Great Satan or their ally The Lesser Satan.

Good to see karma is alive and well……

VCarter, I believe you are spot on, and it will be in tonight's, or tomorrow's news announcements.

Doesn't bode well for their nuke weapons program.

They were using F-14s as mini-AWACS for several years, but I think they have run out of spare parts to keep them flying!

Oh no, I just saw that this article is from DEBKA which has about the same record of accuracy as The National Enquirer. I would wait to see if it's confirmed by other sources.

You guys are cracking me up. Dom, that was priceless – just the laugh I needed today…

Another source.
link

Well, the Enquirer did get the Jon Edwards love-child story right, so I imagine there is at least some possibility of it being true.

The crash on the shrine is a little over the top though.

"…In total, Iraq built three AWACS aircraft, one Baghdad, and two Baghdad-2s, the latter later renamed Adnans. One Adnan and the Baghdad were evacuated to Iran during the 1991 Gulf War, while the second Adnan was destroyed on the ground by a coalition air strike in January 1991…"

So, what is the status of the second aircraft evacuated? I'm not at work or I could check.

Gracias,

Glenn

Debkha is biased, but usually it is reliable for data, it was the only website that reported increased operations in the no fly zones over iraq back in 2003… and listed several radar station being knocked out.

But the news is fun… Dante's justice it seems.

But the news is fun…

To be fair, much as facetiousness and schadenfreude were always destined to rule this thread (and I'm as guilty as the next man, obviously….) we probably ought to consider that 7 men reportedly died. However much we detest their leadership, they still doubtless left loved ones behind, and it's odds-on that a few kids are wondering why daddy's not coming home, so try and spare at least one kind thought too.

Wow, that accident is frought with bad omens. If I was a superstitious Iranian, I'd be more than a little concerned.

Now I have to rewrite my whole attack on the Iranian nuclear targets scenario. Darn the luck.

I can't help thinking how differently most people on this thread would be reacting if this had been a US or European disaster.

"I can't help thinking how differently most people on this thread would be reacting if this had been a US or European disaster."

I will gladly admit that my opinion would be different if this were a US or Nato aircraft. I'm okay with that.

I wasn't aware we were at war with Iran yet…

You said yet…I saw that….

Would you like to claim your £5.00 GBP now or later? :-)

Jingoism is alive as usual…

I have sympathy for anyone who dies doing their duty.

And I especially feel sorry for the families (and as Dom already pointed out), the children (who are most likely school aged or younger if sired by anyone on active duty).

Blame the government. Not the men serving it!

I'm sure as they crashed someone in the air or on the ground said "Will of Allah".

Back when the U.S. was training in Iran that was heard on the radio right before more than one crash.

Eye witnesses reported that the flaming planes landed on the mausoleum burial site of the Islamic revolution's founder Ruhollah Khomeini, a national shrine.

This sounds too ironic to be true, but consider: the big Soviet military parades always had the reviewing stand on top of Lenin's tomb. It seems reasonable to me that the parade might have been held quite near the tomb, possibly passing right in front of it at low level. The tomb complex is huge, so "landed on" could refer to the entire site, not just the tomb itself.

Also, there's a nice ring road around the complex that looks as though it would be nice for a parade.

Ooops…! Crashing onto the tomb is just too good.

Iranian Air Force officers tend to be professional soldiers trained to defend their country, which they do with dedication and professionalism (ok, maybe they need to work on thier flying skills). They are not the same as the Basij militia who are religious fanatics and thugs who beat up protesters. The professional military and the militias do not get along very well, and there is a big difference in their political positions within the country.

I wasn't aware we were at war with Iran yet…

The Iranian government and state-run press will set you straight. ;)

This still has not hit the major news players.

They were soldiers doing their duty and serving their country. They deserve our respect.

Well Gulf News are reporting that a plane crashed so I'm guessing something fairly major happened.

link

Just out of curiosity where the heck did they get AWACS from in the first place?

no too much joy in people's death, but yeah, what a good news! :-)

"I wasn't aware we were at war with Iran yet…"

We haven't been with them, but they have been with us, since the 1979 Revolution and hostage taking of US citizens.

Ahmadenijad was supposedly one of the student radicals holding them hostage, and his image is surprisingly similar to those from that era. Americans who were held hostage say he was one of their captors, so I will defer to them, since they should know, since they were there.

They apparently backed the 1982 bombing of the US Marines in Beirut.

Much like Libya and Syria, they have funded and militarily backed many terrorists and insurgents on various operations, including those in Lebanon, Iraq, and now Afghanistan and Pakistan, fighting a proxy war against the West.

They have also repeatedly threatened to wipe Israel off the map, which is why they don't get much sympathy here.

"Just out of curiosity where the heck did they get AWACS from in the first place?"

Iraq flew it to Iran during the Gulf War to keep it from being destroyed. Quite a few aircraft did so. Naturally the Iranians kept it and finished a major upgrade and refurbishment in April 2008. It is a big loss.

Regarding the wreckage landing on an important tomb, if this sort of thing happened over, say, Washington DC or any major city you'd be hard pressed to miss something important.

VCarter,

To be perfectly honest Insha'Allah is one of the most common phrases used in the Middle East, not just when planes crash. Everything happens if God Wills it.

I have no problem with that particular nation losing this kind of capability and believe me, hold no torch for their leadership! I just hoped we could do better than some of the pleasure that has been expressed given the death of 7 people in what is, after all, an accident.

Nothing political, I've just lost (or nearly lost) too many people to not feel a little compassion for the families involved, whatever their beliefs or background.

Just think we could reign it in just a little.

Certainly not my intention when I started the thread…

Iranian Air Force officers tend to be professional soldiers trained to defend their country, which they do with dedication and professionalism (ok, maybe they need to work on thier flying skills).

I wouldn't make disparaging remarks. The F-104 flying into the XB-70 while they were flying in close formation for publicity shots.

Scroll down for before and after shots: link

Going back to Daniel's original point…

On a practical level, does this increase the chance of someone taking unilateral action against Iran's nuclear facilities or will it make little difference (after all, one aircraft can't be in the air all the time).

And whilst I'm typing – to Top Gun Ace,I should have said in my last post, that was a fair point well made, which I should have acknowledged.

I beg to differ with Top Gun Ace's assessment that we are NOT at war with Iran… perhaps not openly, but their are certainly Iranian combatants in various insurgent units in Iraq, and quite possibly in Afghanistan as well. So while we may not be at war with the nation, we are certainly fighting the people.

*yawn*

Yeah… I feel bad too.

:)

I think I need to send the Israeli Infiltrator who used the Sharpie Marker in the cockpit to change the Compass dials a Beer!

I'm sure, after all, it will somehow be blamed on Israel.

I was thinking the same thing, if not the USA, or Britain.

Then again, maybe it is radical Western sympathizers in the military ranks of Iran, protesting the results of the recent election (offered just to keep the Iranians looking over their shoulders)…..

I don't normally follow stories like this, or visit the sites this thread mentions. Wouldn't something like this have been talked about on a major news outlet by now?

Daniel 23 Sep 2009 9:25 a.m. PST

….DEBKAfile's military and Iranian sources disclose.

My God man DEBKA is to "open source intelligence" what The National Enquirer is to print journalism. I know of NO intelligence agency or open source data collection and dissemination organization that use DEBKA as a source.
VR
James Mattes

Shouldn't this be moved to the Current Affairs board?

Here is a link to the story.

link

When it cvomes to celebrities, the National Enquirer is VERY well informed.

Again, doesn't this event seem like it would be, or should be, covered on a more 'reliable' media outlet?