"Ex Afrika Korps vehicles" Topic

I am doing some research on a project and would appreciate any help on one issue.

Some years ago there was a magazine article, and more recently a web site that dealt with some of the military equipment that passed through Indian ports during WW2.

The information I am looking for relates to the German SdKfz 222 armoured car and some variants of the Pz1 tank.

It seems that some of the vehicles captured in North Africa were shipped to the Chinese nationalists to help them with spare parts for the vehicles they had purchased from Germany in the 1930's. There was some mention that a few of the vehicles were so wrecked that they had to be moved as dead cargo and were good for nothing but being stripped for spare parts. However a couple were able to be driven, or at least pushed during unloading.

I'm trying to track when this was and wondering if they ever actually reached China, and if they did, what was done with them.

I have no doubt the original story was true. It would be perfectly logical to ship unwanted, captured vehicles to an ally who operated them, but was short of spares as it would be the only way spare parts could have been obtained.

The Nationalist Chinese had purchased seom SdKz 222s prior to the war and formed a demonstration unit with them – I think they were about company size, and the crews were issued with standard issue Wehrmacht Stahlhelms

Don't know about transfers of captured gear

The reference mentioned that the transfer was because it was the only way the Nationalist Chinese could get spares to put theirs back in service.
I rather suspect that they had broken down, rather than been damaged in action. The Chinese Nationalists had a habit of not sending anything 'important'into battle in case they lost it and needed it later for fighting the communists.

But its a wonder the allies didnt take advantage of all that captured stuff and send lots of it to the Chinese.

Is there anywhere to read more about this topic?

Hi Mal,

The Arabs kept a bumber of them and used them in the early Arab-Israeli wars (1948 and 1956 and even a few in 1967).

The Chinese Communists apparently bought some of these vehicles at some point (From the Syrians and Egyptians).

Not sure if that relates enough for your interest but hope it helps give you a lead.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

Actually, the Nationalists had an ugly habit of not using their best material at all "just in case" – they sent a lot of duff units off to fight the Communists, only to have the Communists beat them, capture them, take their equipment and then recruit the prisoners into Communist units

Took a while for the Nationalists to twig onto the fact that this might not be the smartest strategy

Is there anywhere to read more about this topic?

You SILLY Combat painter…..that's what I'm asking!!!

"It would be perfectly logical to ship unwanted, captured vehicles to an ally who operated them, but was short of spares as it would be the only way spare parts could have been obtained."

Hmmmm, given the extreme shortage of shipping, and the fact that shipping was the challenge in getting material X at point Y, I believe it would have been a lot easier for the U.S. to ship out new tanks to the Nationalist Chinese directly, rather than ship them back to the U.S., then out to China. I.e., the shipping routes were all out and back, not around and about.

It's not like the U.S. didn't have lots of heavy metal stacked up back in the U.S., waiting to be loaded on something.

But in the absence of any documentation about this rumor, it will all remain conjecture….

Not if the shipping took place in 1941. Plenty of ships coming from North Africa to India and Australia, then back again.

And how did they get from Australia to China?

They would not need to do so if they just went straight from North Africa to India….which was a pretty normal stop over for shipping to all parts of the Commonwealth east of the Red Sea. The war started well before the USA was attacked and forced into it.

I'm going to do some more net research on this today. One of the sites where a lot of information is available, was about 'Lost' cargo. There was a specific term used to describe it, but I cant think of it at the moment. But none the less it was cargo that had sort of got lost.

The way this happened was that ships due to join convoys occasionally did not have time to finish unloading at various ports. The remaining cargo could get shuttled all over the place depending on where the ship went after that.
It was very interesting to read how all sorts of 'lost' things were later unloaded at the wrong port when the skipper of the ship got fed up with his globe trotting cargo. The article I am looking for was specifically about the port of Bombay. Now Mumbai. One of the people telling the story was a British official in charge of unloading cargo and sending it on up the Burma road. Fascinating stuff as they found all sorts of odds and ends. One of the stories dealt with his crews being responsible for cleaning all the shipping grease off tanks, unwrapping the internal fittings and putting them on the vehicle, then driving them to a point where they could be loaded by rail. One would not think such a story could be so interesting, but it was because of the perils of the job, which one one never have expected. US built tanks often had lots of 'extras' in them, sent on by American workers, for the benefit of the troops. Naturally the Indian dock workers sought these out. The man telling the story was not too concerned about some of the items going to his workers, but had to be very careful about such things as lovely packages with almost presentation standard cases in which Thompson sub-machine guns were sent.
The mention of Afrika Korps vehicles being unloaded came when he referred to some very unwelcome 'guests' that had crawled into some of them in Egypt, and lay in wait ready to bite unsuspecting dock workers. Scorpions, snakes etc were a common find in those.
But it is merely a passing story with the only explanation being that they were on the way to the Chinese as spare parts. The story teller is more interested in the problems with them. Thus he does not record much detail for posterity. A very 'teasing' reference to these vehicles making a longer and somewhat unexpected journey than the makers intended. But little detail apart from that some were 'dead' cargo (unmoving) and others could be driven or pushed.

It is the ONLY reference I have ever seen to the movement of these vehicles away from North Africa, hence it raised my interest. But I cannot find any other information on it. Even anything about what was done with many of the captured vehicles is pretty near impossible to find.

There is another reference I found to the Lybians making lots of money post WW2 by selling the left overs of both sides, for scrap metal. But again only referred to in the context of scrap metal, and no details.

So at this point of my research, I have one reference and one only, to at least some Afrika Korps vehicles making it as far as Bombay. But nothing as to if they ever did reach the Chinese, or just ended up as scrap metal in India.

Any suggestions on other angles of approach would be very much appreciated.