"The Spaghetti Western guns" Topic

Why is it that guns in Spaghetti Westerns always sound better. In most westerns there is a little pop or sometimes a decent (but canned sounding) bang. In Spaghetti westerns they make a .45 sound like a cannon. It is a little loud but it seems to do it better. I am getting this impression mainly from the "Dollars Trilogy" but I also noticed it in the Magnificent 7 sequels.

YouTube link "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."

Good sound editing in post- its all canned sound, either recorded on set or from an audio library. They can also completely stuff up a production as you have already observed.

In a nutshell: Most American westerns were cranked out on little budget in a hurry. Gunshots were blanks -- which sound pretty much like real gunshots, since they're just bullets without slugs.

The Italians, on the other hand, made westerns that were intended as a statement… which is why the main streets of little bitty towns in spaghetti westerns could accomodate four-lane highways, and the gunshots sound like artillery.

The characteristic gunshot noise heard in spaghetti western has nothing to do with firearms… it's an electronic sound effect which became a trademark of the genre.

There'll be somebody along in a minute who knows how it was done… there always is….

Doc Bedlam: I read once that most main streets in real Western towns were at least 40 feet wide, because you needed to be able to turn a horse and wagon around in them, and that takes room. No one backs up a horse and wagon unless they have to, and space certainly wasn't an issue in the West.

In the commentary track for "Once Upon a Time in the West," there's a lengthy discussion of the way Sergio Leone approached sound in his Westerns. He instructed his sound editor to tweak all of the sounds, modifying them electronically and cranking up the volume to enhance the effect. Leone didn't want realism, he wanted a mythic aural impact, which is why the gunshots, expecially the ricochets, sound so unworldly.

It's most noticeable in the opening scene at the train station, with the telegraph clicking, the windmill squeaking, the water dripping, the fly buzzing . . . Listen to that scene sometime without looking at the screen. Great stuff!

Sergio Leone was a masterful story teller and a genius at film making.

As for the sounds? I have no clue (but I'll take JPs word for it based on the commentary track from OUATITW). I don't own that one, seems like I should.

Thanks for the info. Now I just have to find a way to get that into a game. :)

Dr. B.: It's not the budget, but the intent of the filmmakers. Before the Spaghetti Western, US Westerns were fairly realistic (more or less). Leone transcended that and, as noted above, made "art" statements. It's really a matter of aesthetic decisions than of budgetary restrictions.

Hi

One of the unintended consequences is this. The Italians making good replicas of guns for their movies led to a world wide availability of screw for screw accurate and SHOOTABLE replicas.

Rocky

That reminds me, Rocky: I love the scene in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" where Tuco assembles the perfect revolver from the ones available, then tries it out. It tells us a lot about his "professionalism" in what would be a throwaway scene in any other director's hands. Priceless.

Being a re-enactor I shoot a lot of blanks. I have noticed that they are not as loud as real bullets. I think tis is because the powder is not pushing a slug down the barrel. A gun goes bang because the bullet breaks the sound barrier.
I have also shot a lot of live ammo in various calibers. The slug makes live ammo louder and often sharper.

Why is it that guns in Spaghetti Westerns always sound better. In most westerns there is a little pop or sometimes a decent (but canned sounding) bang. In Spaghetti westerns they make a .45 sound like a cannon. It is a little loud but it seems to do it better. I am getting this impression mainly from the "Dollars Trilogy" but I also noticed it in the Magnificent 7 sequels.

Gamer, this one has me confused. The Magnificent 7 sequels were not "spaghetti Westerns". Or are you saying that the guns in the "Dollars" trilogy sounded better than the guns in the Mag 7 sequels?

Anyway, the gun sounds were sometimes different from western to western. In fact, the gunshots in Mag 7 sounded different than the average. They had a kind echoing sound. Leone's gunfire frequently added a ricochet sound, even when there was no ricochet. (-: I recall that when I saw "Shane" at a large movie theater that the gunshots when Shane was showing Joey his fast draw were highly amplified for effect.

Hi

Count, some rounds are supersonic, most pistol rounds in this period are not. Thus no supersonic crack.

I like Tuco a lot in the movie for a lot of reasons. I am not convinced by his gun assembly, though. Cute, but as I own some dozen examples, I just don't believe it.

One issue that does crop up is ONE hole in the cylinder is slightly off and causes fliers. I have an SAA like that which, by coincidence, is used as my dead chamber! ARRGH.

The issue with used single actions is a problem in the mainspring, but that requires more than just parts assembly to fix. My first SAA had a main spring that had been cut from the lid of a can back about 1900!

In these movies, they often do silly mistakes, brass cartridges for cap and ball weapons and so on. In some movies you have richerdson conversion, but rarely do people carry rimfire rounds or, GHASP, pinfire!

Rocky

Shadow, guess it is confusing since I consider the Mag 7 sequels Spaghetti westerns since they were filmed in Spain (except for Mag 7 ride) and they had the Spaghetti style. I also thought the guns seemed smilar to the Dollars Trilogy guns.

>Shadow, guess it is confusing since I consider the Mag 7 sequels Spaghetti westerns since they were filmed in Spain (except for Mag 7 ride) and they had the Spaghetti style. I also thought the guns seemed smilar to the Dollars Trilogy guns.<

You have a point there Gamer. "Return of the Seven" and "Guns of the Magnificent Seven" were filmed in Spain. So *technically* you could say that they're Euro-westerns, but they weren't by an Italian director such as the "three Sergios" Leone, Sollima and Corbucci, or even a European director. Burt Kennedy is as American as you can get. (-: Other generally accepted defining factors such as an international cast with Italian supporting actors and being originally filmed in a foreign language for a primarily European audience and then dubbed into English aren't there. So I'd say that it's a stretch to say that "Return" and "Guns" are "spaghetti westerns".

Hi

How about "red sun"?

Rocky

Having shot some Western guns out side, they do sound like pops whne you are next to them, loud pops but still pops I have no problem standing 5 feet from a .45 with out ear protection, even shotguns can easly be tolereated.

So I would say the pop sound of american westerns are more correct then the over the top spagettii westren sounds.

Infact the movie I think is closest is Tombstone, you got the semi lound pop I have heard in real life.

If you want more sound them pop you have to stand infront of a rilfe, that will actualy give quite a lot of sound that travles futher then the pops of the revolvers

"Having shot some Western guns out side, they do sound like pops whne you are next to them"

Right. I've never heard any movie gun fire that sounds like real gunfire. It's all for dramatic effect.

"How about "red sun"?"

What about it?

Hi

One of my favorite Spaghetti westerns! Not mentioned so far.

Rocky

"Right. I've never heard any movie gun fire that sounds like real gunfire. It's all for dramatic effect."

Actualy Heat does a very good job so does Collateral.
But thats modern guns not old time revolvers

And, again, Leone was going for myth, not reality.