"Need some help deciding on what scale" Topic

Hey folks

I'm wanting to get back into mini-gaming WW2 era. 1/300 is out as it's too small and there is little detail (well, not enough for me) and I think 10mm is out too (for the same reasons). These two scales allow for larger fights, but I find at these scales there is too much to keep track off and less attention to detail….just too "busy" for me.

So…..15mm or 20mm it is.

I've tried finding retailers who carry these scales but really haven't found any that sell WW2…lots of cival war and earlier stuff.

I know of a few…Old Glory and QFC. Are there any other retailers out there for these scales?

Thanks!!

There are many many manufacturers of 20mm and 15mm figs for WWII.

Like kyoteblue said, what do they use where you live?

20mm allows the use of plastic and HO terrain/buildings -- so relatively speaking, a lot cheaper than 15mm.

15mm currently is da bomb (that's what I do -- not because I like it better than 20mm but because that's what is used in the local community). Allows somewhat larger battles than 20mm. Selection of figs is comparable to 20mm. Storage space is less. But overall cost is actually quite a bit more than 20mm.

mjc

Whoops

I will be solo gaming.

Anyone recommend some decent solo rules for WW2? I was looking at, uh, Ambush Alley?

Thanks again

Ambush Alley is more for modern warfare, you may be thinking of Force on Force it's sister game. You may want to reconsider 1/285 if you're after solo gaming, Blitzkrieg Commander if anyhting like Cold War Commander seems to work well solo.

20mm is cheap with some great manufacturers, and you can leverage the wonderful world of HO scale models for scenery.

15mm is the more popular due to Flames of War, and there is a whole host of excellent manufacturers. The total cost of ownership once you factor in scenery and terrain may be more, but you'll never be lost for opponents in this scale – though again it depends on which game system you settle on and how you base them.

For 20mm troops, the AB miniatures are very nice.

For vehicles, the Combat Ready range by Cromwell Models is superb too.

HO-scale scenery is 18.5mm and it works well with 15mm IMHO. I use 1/87 (HO) for my gaming.

The next question is how big a game do you want to play? I think "Nuts!" from Two Hour Wargames has a solo-play rule and it works for squad to platoon sized units. If that's what you're after, then some 1/72 quick-build models, two boxes of Airfix or Revell plastic troops and some scenery will have you in action without a whole lot of fuss.

Regardless of your scale, you can probably find ready-to-go minis from TMPers. I think Allen (AECurtis) has some 15mm infantry ready to deploy. Depending on where/when you want to play, I've got cheap lead and, just by looking at the Marketplace, I know that I'm not the only option.

Wyatt

Blitzkreig Commander works with any scale so 15mm and 20mm (I've used both myself) with that rule set for either solo or opponent gaming. The pros and cos of the scales have been well set out earlier. Personally I liked model building so 20mm plastic kits (1/72nd scale) was great. Now I use 10mm and love it.

20mm. much bigger selection at a fraction of the price.

Let's see, 20mm manufacturers-Figures, Armour and Artillery (20mm metal), Valient (20mm plastics) any of the plastic figure makers, HaT, ect… I know Scale Creep has 20mm plastics (I forget what brand though), and you can get tons of hits using google and 20mm WW2 miniatures as your search criteria. I can't help much with solo rules though, but if you live in PA, shoot me an email.

20mm all the way

--- You can use cheap ready painted vehicles like Dragon
--- Britannia miniatures paint easily (made for Army painter and the dip) and look fantastic
--- GOS (God's own scale)

let me tempt you with 28mm !!!

link

Zasgard,
I had started a similar thread last month. You may want to go through the comments I had received.
TMP link

15mm (or 1:100) seems to be the most popular size/scale these days, mainly due to the huge popularity of Flames of War.
Some recommended makers of 15mm miniatures are:
- BattleFront (Official manufacturer of Flames of War)
- QRF (Produced by Geoff, who's an active member of TMP)
- Peter Pig (Deemed by many to have some of the best-looking figures)
- Quality Castings (Good vehicles, but mediocre infantry)
- Old Glory (Very cheap, but quality sometimes suffers)

On the other hand, 20mm (or 1:72) has long been the "traditional" scale for historical wargaming, mainly due to the sheer availability of cheap plastic kits, and due to the fact that almost anything made for HO-gauge railroad modeling can be used with 20mm miniatures.

However, the infantry range of plastic 1:72 miniatures are very limited when compared to 15mm, and it may be difficult to find suitable 1:72 plastic kits for the more exotic vehicles.

You could always go for metal miniatures to "fill in the gaps", but be warned that they are more expensive than their 15mm counterparts.

As for solo rules, I would highly recommend "NUTS!" by Two Hour Wargames.
link

To me the new sacle is 12mm (1/144) supply of figures is limited but vehicals less so and the standard is very high. Significantly smaller than 15mm. In percived size (volumetric scale) about half 15mm and nearly twice 10mm. Low space requirement lots of terrain from cheap ( our lot Manueouver Group) to the top N guage model railway stuff. No good for large uban but great for realistic rural with lanes and small villages. Well worth a look, the range is limited but growing fast (at a price). However do you need obscure vehicals if they were only rearely seen on the battlefield.

The key is what sort of battles you want to fight. Vehicle heavy (1/144) or infantry heavy 1/72. 15mm will do somewhere in between, some however being "chunky" look nealy as big as plasic 1/72. Certainly some 20mm will fit with 1/72 plasic and not look far out.

15mm is a reasonable compromise of storage space and looks, but in recent years has become hideously expensive compared to 20mm. A few years back I'd have recommended 15mm, but not any more, the vast majority of my new purchases have been 20mm. They are cheaper and just look so nice, although it does depend how much kit you are thinking of getting.

Scale doesn't restrict the size of battle though. If you call a tank one vehicle then you are skirmishing, if you call one tank a battalion, then you are a divisional commander (although obviously you need to adjust the ground scale to something appropriate like 1:25000 for bigger games). Most of my 20mm stuff is based for division/corps/army sized games.

Frankly though, I'd revisit 6mm. The bulk of my solo gaming is done in 6mm, it is much easier to setup and take down, you can sit down at the table (which also makes it look bigger!) and I just do the same sort of games I'd do in 15mm or 20m but with half the ground scale.

I've not ever come across a set of WW2 rules which you can't play solo, although if you prefer pre-programmed type games then something with an order system (say like Spearhead) might be more suitable.

Whatever you can think of will be available in some form for 20mil.

To my mind the alternatives are micro, 10mil and 20mil.
If you want smaller than 20mil and I'd go for 10mil and I'd buy most of my stuff from pendraken.

If big is good and you just wanted infantry then 1/35th is worth considering. Your stuff could look very cool. Bit expensive if you bought verlinden though.
Maybe not so big?
1/48th has recently had a number of releases and there are some cracking kits. If you like making kits…

If it's detail you want, you want 54mm!
It really isn't expensive, less so than 28mm anyway.

If you have already ruled out 10mm, then ignore this: we game ww2 late war in 10mm, we place a company of men (approx 1:1) aswell as a squadron or so of tanks, we can also get artillery on the board and in our scale we have the ability to force artillery to move as they cannot cover the whole board.

link

for most of your needs and if you are looking early war try

nowear.se/pithead

there is detail on these small models and the fights look like they should (no stalins carpark for example)

jon

It might also depend on where you live and what scale of action you are looking to play (for instance 1 to 1 skirmish, battalion level, divisional?).

You are going to be playing solo now but in the future you might want to join others or have them join you. That having been said, and as a general rule, you will find 15mm much more prevalent in the US for example with 20mm usually found for skirmish level. My experience in the UK, though dated now, found 20mm more common for all levels.

And as to Dragon prepaints being cheap, you are kidding right? Or perhaps we have a different definition of cheap :)

More detail on some of the 1/285 ranges than 15mm.

When it comes to affordability, detail and ranges available nothing comes close to 20mm

I recently gave up 6mm for 15mm WWII because I relaized that I mostly do infantry heavy games and 6mm is really best if you like a lot of armour. The GHQ stuff is really detailed if you choose it however.

The other reason for the switch is that the guys in the club largely do 15s and I wanted to join in.

If you are going solo I would choose based on local availability. Postage and duties can quickly eat up any price savings.

Blitzkrieg Commander works superbly as a solo game.

I use 1/87 scale, it goes with all the HO railroad buildings, and there's room to nicely detail the models and add legible vehicle IDs and tank names on the US ones. A little pricier than 20mm, but has actual scale models, not clunky approximations.

If I was starting today, I'd be tempted by 10mm/N scale, although it looses visible customised modelling detail once it's on the tabletop.

Great assortment of HO military can be found at Fidelis Models: fidelismodels.com/mm5

You need both plus 1/48, 15mm for the stand = some unit size games like Command Decision or Flames of War. 20mm for the semi-skirmish platoon to company level like Rules of Engagment or Disposable Heroes games. 1/48 for the squad to platoon size skirmish like Nuts! or The Face of Battle.

I know, you said you wanted larger fights, but that likely will change, and you can never have enough scales or eras!

Another vote for 28MM, page 2 has more WW2 pictures.

link

20mm allows the use of plastic and HO terrain/buildings -- so relatively speaking, a lot cheaper than 15mm.

Really? Where are you getting cheap plastic terrain and bulidings in 20mm from? Most of the model railway stuff is expensive although you can get lovely prepaints, but there are some great prepainted buildings in 15mm for a similar price or cheaper.

A few years back I'd have recommended 15mm, but not any more, the vast majority of my new purchases have been 20mm. They are cheaper and just look so nice, although it does depend how much kit you are thinking of getting.

Again where are you getting it all from? A quick look round the local shops and online shows prices for 20mm plastic kits in the £6-10 range with a few over £12.00 GBP It is only really Frontline that competes on price with 15mm and their stuff isn't the best and even then firms like QRF match them for price on most things.

If you already collect a different era I'd go with the same scale as you already have. Terrain is the big space hog in the store room and if you can use the same stuff for different eras it'll save you lots of room. Trust me, I have 1:2400, 6mm, 15mm, 20mm, and 25/28mm.