"kingdom of Piedmont 1796-1797........." Topic

gentlemen

does anyone have any information uniform wise .covering

all arms for the piedmontese along with details on their

artillery

thank you

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

There used to be an Itlian site with this info, try a google search. I will see if I still have the site when I get home from work.
William

thanks william.that was a lighning response!!!!!!!!!

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

This might help

link

excellent de ligne………..great link

kind regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

Seems that link is on again/off again……appears broken.

That is the link I mentioned.
William

Somewhere on here you might also find a link .. perhaps to the Napoleon Series detailing all of the national, provincial, frei corp, cavalry and artillery and engineers.

I printed it out years ago but don't have any links to where it might now be found.

One excellent thing about a Piedmonte Army of the revolutionary period is, that aside from one or two unique formations – such as their light legion in caps, they are identical to the Dutch of the same period (Musketeers and Grenadiers )and to Prussian SYW (Musketeers only).

The only noticeable difference if any would be the differently coloured cockade on the hat.. sky blue for Piedmonte.

If you intend to game with these figs you merely need a new command stand with a Piedmont flag and you are good to go!

Cheers!
Beeker

Beeker

interesting stuff………i hope someone can come up with
the link on the Napoleon series

i not sure if i have remembered this exactly but i seem
to have read Napoleons opinion on the Piedmontese as
"dress them in red,white or blue and they will still run
away!! .(might have been an allusion to the neapolitans)

anyway

apprecite the post

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

Ged

I think there is alot more to the Piedmont story that remains untold and has yet to be properly documented in English and French.

I have the impression.. and I say impression as a qualifier.. that they were actually very capable soldiers and were well led. I think they were also very intelligent and with the political and geo-political situation as it was – were savvy enough to know they were in a no-win situation being threatened by both France and Austria.

I am also guessing that their contribution to the Austrian effort to stop Napoleon's first campaign in Italy is patently understated and under reported and would go so far to "stir-the-pot" by stating that this might have included their ommission from many official OOB and after action reports by the Austrians.

What is certain is that approx 20 – 30K Piedmontese continued to serve with the Austrians well into Napoleon's second Campaign in Italy and that several thousand of these men went on to become elite troops in Napoleon's Emperial regiments.

Any Grad students out there interested in testing this theory? ;)

Cheers!
Beeker

Beeker
agreed……………big time

they could certainly design guns……….small state
big cohonas!!

on a serious note the whole geo-political-military situation
intrigues me……….i promise to get to the bottom of it
for you!!

best regards

Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk/

I think that quote from Napoleon refers to the neapolitans or someone else, the piedmontese had been known as a small but solid army for almost a century.

BTW – I always thought Piedmonte would be an excellent cornerstone for a fictional campaign for the French Revolutionary War.

"What if…"

.. in 1790, 91 instead of negotiating and remaining neutral, having fought numerous Alpine engagements with France, King Amadeous enters into a military alliance with England, Spain, Naples (like the investment of Toulon) that also sees the much earlier entry of Russia.

The Austrians participate in a token manner knowing their designs on Turin have been checked by Russia.

If I ever get back into gaming I think I would give that a shot.

Cheers!
Beeker

The Eureka range is very inspiring, enough to make me consider building armies for the 1790s in Italy.

D A F

I think you're more than half way there with some Fredrkn Prussians for Piedmontese!

DOn't fight it! You know you want to

its a VERY tempting period to game Beeker….believe

me i wont fight the urge!!

best regards

Ged

I would hazard a guess that BH 15mm Russians for the Wars of the French Revolution also would be good stand-ins for much of the infantry, if they wear the very Prussian post-Potemkin uniform.

prossl
you could certainly use BH 15mm russians thaey have the
right look

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

Ged

There is an excellent print in 'Napoléon Bonaparte 1ere campagne d'Italie' by Jean Tranie and J C Caramigniani, éditions Pygmalion, 1990. Out of print but you may find it thru' specialist second hand booksellers? A beautiful book altogether, with wonderful illustrations and really helpful orders of battle.

I used Battle Honours French Revoultion range. French for the line infantry, Austrian grenadiers, Austrian infantry in Kasket for lights, and Austrian Dragoons for their cavalry. One guy I know of did use Battle honours Russians for the line infantry. I don't know the current state of the Battle Honours range but you could try AB miniatures as an alternative or even Minifigs.

A good (if somewhat Bonapartist) description of the campaign is provided by Spencer Wilkinson's 'The Rise of General Bonapate'.

Seamus

P.S. I found a scan of the print mentioned above, not sure of the quality but it might help. Email me direct seamusDOTbradleyATtiscaliDOTcoDOTuk if you'd like a copy.
Regards

Agree – this is a wonderful book…

It's also one of those sources that has me skeptical about the actual role and involvement of the Piedmontese during both of Napoleon's campaigns in Italy.

I did an initial comparison with events listed in D. Smith's GreenHill Napoleonic Wars Data Book where I saw references to units and regiments that are commonly refered to as Austrian in the Tranie books.

Mind you, this could just be a miss-reading du langue fancais.

Cheers!
Beeker

PS I love how we've hijacked this Book page with a thread on Piedmonte.. ;)

Mirliton has a 25mm range for 1796-1800
link

Seamusbradley……….what a good lad you are i was being
a thick plastic paddy as i have all the Tranie and
carmingniani sitting on my shelves!!…

i will now trawl through both books as im sure they are
loaded with uniform and artillery information

i like your breakdown of castings used ……..interesting

again.cheers

best regards

Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk/

Beeker

appreciate your imput re above-mantioned books which
contain in my opinion some of the finest illustrations
albiet many black and white.and some wondefull uniform
information …so the text in french is not to much of
a problem as i have a basic grasp.

must look at Digby Smiths book regarding the confusing
role the piedmontese troops played. complex is not the
word

best regards Beeker

Ged

thanks Magister

The Battle Honours figures are readily available from Old Glory 15s; I just placed two orders, and service has been excellent. As a bonus, they have been running a bulk discount special, 30% for orders over $100. USD Not only are the figures exceptionally nice (they clearly are close siblings of the AB figures, only just a bit smaller, they also are very affordable (with the bulk discount, they came to $14 USD US per bag of 50 infantry).

I purchased and received Austrians and Brits in round hats, which I am using for emigre regiments. I have in the pipe some further bags of Austrians and some Russian musketeers, which will become Netherlanders or Piedmontese or even perhaps Russians (for Italy and the Den Helder campaign).

The 1797 Russian uniform is very Prussian, and therefore seems pretty suitable for the many Prussian "carbon copy" armies of the period. For the Piedmontese and Dutch Grenadiers, who wore an Austrian style bear skin headdress, I'll either go with the BH Austrians and will just paint on lapels, or will go with Eureka 1806 Saxons.

In short: if you want to do the period in 15s, Battle Honours is a great way to go, and the range can be stretched out to cover a lot of armies of the time.

Prossl

its amazing whats available for the period in 15mm
to be honest with a bit of imagination……you can
field the whole army……

old glory 15s are as you say probably the best deal
around and reasonable to boot…AND easy to paint

regards

ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

I'm assuming that OG has a reasonable AWI range as well. If so use British Light Infantry in caps to represent the Legion legere.

Any extra figs can be painted green and used for some of the lights found in the small german states at the outset of the revolutionary war.

Good luck!
Beeker

Not cheap, but I've seen a copy of this book and it is a wonderful resource.

link

Now that is sweet!

Thanks for pointing this book out Stavka.

Cheers!
Beeker

Stavka

great find.well done that maan

Regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk

Purchased Uniformi piemontesi 1671-1798 and had a good read last week.

Not bad particulalry for those who like collecting books.. such as myself. Limited info on the french revolutionary period but excellent cross-reference to the info found on the bandiere033.html website.

Afraid there are no references to flags, standards or guidions.

For this reason I would rely instead on the above website for info on Piemonte if you are interested in painting or gaming this army.

Cheers!
Beeker

"i not sure if i have remembered this exactly but i seem
to have read Napoleons opinion on the Piedmontese as
"dress them in red,white or blue and they will still run
away!! .(might have been an allusion to the neapolitans)"

Dear sir this is, indeed, an allusion to the Neapolitan troop by their own King according to an old legend..
The Piedmontese army was another matter: it resisted the French from 1792 to 1796 and inflicted a major defeat at the Battle of the Authion.
THE reference about Pied uniforms is "Le Regie Truppe Sarde (1773-1814)" written by Stefano Ales and excellently illustrated by Massimo Brandani. (Actually the official name of the Piedmontese army was ROYAL SARDINIAN ARMY). Regards

Rare too!

Ales' 1740-1772 book seems to be the only one readily availale for re-sale (Amazon, ABE, etc).

Many thanks 7th for bringing this to my attention.

Cheers!
Beeker

Anyone got any info on Piedmont Light Infantry in 1796. I'm looking at the Battle of Mondovi where the majority of the Piedmont units were LI. However, I'm not sure about the uniforms. Were the battalions made up from the light companies of the line units or were they actual light battalions? I have some info on uniforms but it's a bit vague. Also did they carry flags?

From Organization of the Savoy-Piedmont-Sardinian Armies 1792-1815 By Ludovic Isnard on Napoleon Series Forum at link

Chasseurs:

1st Battalion: Composed of the Gardes, Saluces, Aoste, Courten, la Reine, Christ, Sardaigne, Lombardie chasseur companies.
2nd Battalion: Composed of the Montferrat, Piedmont, Royal-Allemand, la Marine, Savoie, Chablais chasseur companies.

In March 1796, these 2 battalions were grouped under the command of the Colonel marquis Colli-Ricci

Light infantry

Apart for the line regiments, the army organisation dating from 1775 brought to existence a light unit whose tasks was primarily the frontier guard and smuggling control:

"Legion legere", Light Legion with 4 battalions and a depot company, around 2200 men.

In April 1795, the Light legion was dissolved and formed 2 new units instead:

1st Light Regiment
2nd Light Regiment

Regiments with 2 battalions: 4 fusiliers companies, 1 of grenadier, 1 of chasseur.

Corps Francs

Theses free corps were used to harass enemy communication line and to make partisan attacks but also fighting with the regular troops in many fights.

A free company already existed before the start of the war against France. In 1792 it had 800 men divided in 2 corps:

National Company (Savoyards and Piemontese)
French Company (French emigres and deserters)

At the end of 1792, the count Malabailo di Canale, former officer of the guard regiment, created a "century" (that is 2 companies) of chasseur-carabineers (337 men). In 1793, the Canale's Chasseur-Carabineers became a battalion. Recruitment included sometimes bandits, smugglers, and the like. They had a bad reputation but their behaviour on the battlefield show much courage and energy

In March 1793, Filippo del Carretto, marquis of Camarana, commanded a second "corps franc" made up of pardoned deserters (2 companies) rapidly joined by French emigres. This corps became the chasseurs commanded by the French emigre de Bonnaud in 1793 and reached 2 companies. They were used for various dangerous missions (in the Gilette fight near Nice in 1793 for example).

From 1794, the "corps francs" are getting more and more numerous and they became organised in a greater "Corps francs" structure comprising 13 companies (2133 men):

Piano's Chasseurs: 150 men initially, passing to 2 companies of 307 men 6 months after their creation.
Pandini's Corps franc
Martin Montu-Beccaria's Chasseurs (carabineers) 150 men
The 2 de La Rocque's companies: a regular company and and a free company made up of Nice's volunteers.
Radicati's Nicois chasseurs (2 battalions) which had an excellent reputation.

To insure a better discipline among these various free companies, their were finally regrouped under the command of a unique man in 1795. This commander was Borgarelli D'Isone and the free corps comprised then 11 companies of 160 men each:

1st Pandini
2nd Buriasco
3rd Saissi
4th Francini
5th Martin
6th Bovarino
7th Rivarona
8th Patono
9th Piano
10th De Bonneaud
11th de reserve

Notably, the Radicati's Nicois chasseurs stayed out this structure (they were formed then of 2 battalions of 4 companies, 1500 men) because they were already considered elite troops due to their excellent fighting capacity.

Also see "The Sardinian Army in the War of the Alps" at link

Unfortunately the excellent site on the Piedmontese/Kingdom of Sardinia Armies hosted on xoomer seems to have disappeared.

As for flags, Plate 60 in "Insigne Militari Preunitare Italiane" by Stefano Ales shows a pennant from 1774 & then standards from 1774, which were modified in 1795 for the Legione Truppe Legere. No flags are shown for the Free Corps.

You can see the Volume & plate at link

I suspect this is a very useful book on the army ⁶"Le Regie Truppe Sarde 1773 – 1814"
Author: Stefano Ales
Publisher: Stato maggiore dell'Esercito – Ufficio Storico
Edition: 1989 link

I have books on other armies from the "Stato maggiore dell'Esercito" and they are all full of excellent information on uniforms, organisation, standards etc

Just looked on my bookcase to find I had foolishly forgotten that I did have a copy of "Le Regie Truppe Sarde 1773 – 1814"! (LOL). Will post copies of the uniform plates & text of the light troops when I am able to scan them.

As promised I have uploaded a pdf file with the title "Piedmont Light Infantry" to Mediafire – it can be accessed by clicking on link File size is 58.87MB due to images (used a photo quality scanner).

Thanks for the feedback