"Best Rules for Cold War Air Combat 1955-1970?" Topic

What are the best rules for gaming Cold War era air combat 1955-1970?

Here's what I'm looking for:

Complicated is better than over simplified.

I'd like a player to be able to manage 2-4 planes.

Rules that include a great proportion of aircraft and weapons from the target period.

Includes missiles and dogfighting.

I don't expect to find a "perfect" set of rules, but would just like to find the one that best fits.

Thanks,

Brian

Well, if you can wait a little, the jet version of Check Your Six! is coming out sometime over the next few months. I have been in on some of the play testing and it is a great game. It is similar to the WW2 CY6!, so if you have played that, you will know what to expect.

Mark

I have played Airwar C21 and enjoy them. It is a very easy game to play, not overly complex and might not fit your criteria. It does have a huge amount of airplanes and ordinance. I am looking forward to Check You Six modern rule set coming out next year. I suspect that will be my rule set of choice, since the WWII version is outstanding IMHO.

Mike

Check Your 6 Jet rules are to be released in July, 2010. I would wait til then as I've play tested them at several cons so far and they are wonderful.

I haven't tried them yet, but have been looking at MiG Alley Aces and Phantoms, both based on AH's Mustangs game. A gaming club in Utah has expanded Phantoms to include ground attack and have both sets of rules posted on their website.

I am working on data collection for my own set of Korean War air rules at the moment because none that I've come across yet includes complete data for both the jets and the piston engined a/c that were used during the war.

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried using Avalon Hill's Flight Leader game for miniatures?
Ken

Clash of Sabres – none better for 3-D dogfighting in a reasonable amount of time.

Provides data for most of the important jets of the era, and rules for visual and radar spotting, initiative, special maneuvers, etc.

Has a decent level of detail to keep you interested, so no two games are the same, and to permit real-world tactics, without having to plot turns in second-by-second increments. No hexmat is needed for game play.

We produce 3-D Flight Stands to go with them, in order to help you keep track of the aircraft's current altitudes as well, easily, helping to speed play, and to provide for a stunning gaming experience.

See more about them here:

topgunmarketing.org

I have also developed unofficial stats to permit you to game the Falklands, and Iran-Iraq Conflicts in the 1980's as well.

At $11.99 USD a copy, they are a real bargain compared to most other rules.

I hope that helps.

Best regards,

Rob
Topgun Marketing LLC

I have't used actualiniatures but FlightLeader works well without a hexgrid and provides an excellent game. It's more about fijting you'd planes and not flying them.

I would recommend C21, much better than any of the competitors :)

3D is there but elegantly hidden in the rules via maneuvering. The rules are not overly complex, but all the main factors are there, AtA, BVR and AtG are included. Crew quality is important.

Phantoms and Intruders are free as well.

If you want a bit more detail than C21 but not too much, try Fox 2 Reheat by A&A Games. They work well and come with lots of aircraft stats.

Cheers
kieran

C21 is not a good choice for the dogfighting era (though I think it could be modified to be).

Mach Speed Hunters is a good set of rules that is 3D and both detailed and playable – but poor production quality.

And I think the Wings at War series (like Thud Ridge) has a lot of potential. It's simple, but 3D and elegant, and has a lot of potential for being expanded.

I agree that Avalon Hill's Flight Leader used for minis would probably be a great choice….until the new CY6 jet rules come out. I have some doubts about CY6 though….I think they will focus only on guns and heat-seeking missiles….not making too much effort to deal with the longer range weapons that are more about technological superiority than dogfighting. I know the longer range missiles and radar aren't as much fun to use….but I at least want the option to include them. I believe you can use them in the old Flight Leader rules.

How long before Wings of War figures out how to work out rules for jets though? That system is a great deal of fun for convention games….and easy to lure new players into air combat games…..the WW2 rules look cool, except that the aircraft stats are fudged too much for play balance….they didn't do that so much in the WWI set.

"C21 is not a good choice for the dogfighting era (though I think it could be modified to be)."

Number6 – I'm always looking for improvements to the C21 rules. Could you let me know (either here or offlist) the areas in which you would like to see improvements made?

My thanks to everybody. I'm checking into all of the suggestions.

DM – check out my comments here:

TMP link

TMP link

I think you have to represent altitude in some way – but you don't need a complex movement 3D system if you expand on the use of maneuvers.

The Wings at War series are simple but have elegant mechanisms. One thing they do that I think is important is provide relative ratings for specific periods rather than try to create absolute ones – which is a slippery slope to lots of complexity.

N6 – I've read most of the posts you linked to and I think you've got something there. I see a simple fix by adding "Energy" to the performance criteria in the form of "starting energy" (similar to starting speed) at the beginning of the game. It goes up and down (again like speed) based on whatever thrust is available and the maneuvers the aircraft uses during the turn. Pilot skill could also play a role. Heavy dogs with poor thrust will fall out sooner than a light, agile craft with plenty of power.

The relative energy levels can then translate into a simple die modification for things like initiative and combat.