"Do You Buy From Snooty People?" Topic

Please, for the record, this is not directed at anyone person in particular. The majority of sellers/manufacturers are very mindful of their dependence on the average customer.

So, this is simply a question posed to see how other buyers/collectors/wargamers think.

Okay. Here are the two questions:

1) Does the personality of the seller/manufacturer matter to you when you place an order? In other words, are you willing to deprive yourself of products you wish you had, as long as you know you are contributing to the success of only those you feel are deserving individuals?

2) Or do/would you buy from a seller/manufacturer that is horrible in customer relations, as long as you get your figures and, in the process, risk inflating his/her ego further?

I am not an artist by any stretch of the imagination. But I have seen the creative "artist" attitude in real life and among the hobby. Honestly, I don't put up with it.

I don't believe that "the customer is always right". But, by the same token, I don't feel that a seller/manufacturer should disregard the basics of customer relations and exhibit an arrogant attitude, simply because he/she feels (and really believes) that you are willing to put up with any attitude they dish out, as long as you get your end product.

So, what do you think?

CC

I cannot think of any company where the lead owner/sculptor is snooty. I refuse to order from any company that has poor service. The flip side of that is that I will buy from great guys reguardless of the price. That is one of the reasons I constantly buy from Red Box.

Beowulfdahunter,

I understand completely. I've spent major bucks on the products sold by great people.

As much as the depletion of my wallet hurts, it is more than compensated when I realize I am rewarding the right people for the right attitude.

CC

CC….
To answer your questions:

1: Yes. I think it does matter. Not just his business personality, but his attitude as a whole. If he/they make/sell good figures but have a "look down their nose" attitude at me for whatever reason, (either real or imagined), then I simply take my money elsewhere.

2: No I won't. To be honest…(and I won't name the persons/makers), but there is a maker of some nice 18th Century Figures which I would love to buy, but I have this discovered that this person can be pretty obnoxious and for some reason (and I don't know why), dislikes me. I've never said a dang thing to the guy but on former posts here, and listings on others sites, he's brought up my name a couple of times in his rants. For some really I seem to pull his chain…so sadly enough, for some real (that I don't know of), or imagined reason, he's probably lost a few hundred dollars of business with me, simply due to his attitude. Now a few hundred dollars may not mean much to him, but I think in the long run it might due to the fact that if he does this with me, how many others does he do it with and compound that?

Great attitude and service, and really pleasant people to deal with…Bob Murch from Pulp Figs…and Rebel Mike from Rebel Minis, among so many others…

Murphy,

I appreciate your candid reply. There have been times when I would rather order from a manufacturer overseas, and pay a little extra in postage, than deal with some retailers retailers here and contribute to keep them in business.

By the same token, there have been some arrogant manufacturers I have entirely written off. I don't even look at their announcements or product listings, so as not to be tempted to buy from them.

A couple of years ago, I dealt with someone who was less than friendly and customer oriented. I made several attempts, but realized that is how he was with everyone. This last month I found another person exactly like that. I guess that individual feels so secure in the current situation that common decency and politeness is no longer necessary for their business.

Sorry. Won't put up with that.

CC

1) Yes

2) Yes

Not everyone in business is a good guy. Some are complete jerks. I need figures at a good price. On the other hand, my local game shop has a good guy running it, and has good prices.

If you can't stand the guy, buy somewhere else. I have been known to pay more for better customer service.

Brent27511: "I have been known to pay more for better customer service."

Does that mean that your reply to the second question should be "No"? :)

CC

In real estate its location location. In miniatures it period period. If the guy or gal is the only seller then I smile and advance the cash. If he or she has competition and is tough to deal with then the money goes elsewhere.

Luckily I have rarely encountered the obmoxious sales type.

Most of the problems I have encountered were slow delivery and a lot of times there were good reasons for that.

Slow delivery I can understand. That's why I always order way ahead of when I think I need things anyway.

Rude replies to helpful emails, however, are a death sentence to the relationship . . .

"Too bad. That's all I am willing to consider at the moment. People like my figures and buy them no matter what I make. And I don't feel like changing my plans. Try finding anything like it from another source. You won't find it. Take it or leave it."
(an email I received last month from a manufacturer, when I thought he was looking for ideas on ranges)

That's when I "leave it".

CC

I can think of all of two stores where I didn't much care for the attitude of those working there.

In both cases, I voted with my wallet; I put it back in my pocket and left.

I can't think of any manufacturers or companies that have been particularly rude or snooty. I can think of a couple whose service has left something to be desired, but they were polite enough, even when they didn't know where my merchandise was or who should have done what with it.

Doc: "but they were polite enough"

With that I can excuse almost any mishap.

CC

There is a dealer that goes to HMGS-E cons that me and my buddy always bet on how cranky he will be. We debate whether going to his stall earlier in the con is better. His minions are friendly, but he can be down right rude sometimes.

There is one business that has a persona on a forum. He was rude to me in reply to a post I made… there was no need for the rude comment, as the original post was harmless in its self, and had nothing to do with his business or him at all.

I will NEVER buy from that person or their store. It is lucky for me that I can bet the things he sells else where.

So, yes it is important to me that a seller is polite and had manners, and if it means I cant get a figure or item that person sells, then so be it.

I've spent money on products manufactured by pompous, self-centered idiots. I am, after all, a consumer in this day and age, and some things cannot be avoided.

When it comes to game supplies, my threshold for buying is based more on pure business issues. There are exceptions, and I've mentioned them here before. If the product is that good but the manufacturer is a tool, I'll look into buying secondhand.

In the end it comes down to specific cases, though. Without naming names, there are three companies in mind that help define the limits. The oldest of these companies produces a game in the old school. This game and its many extensions still provide a unique play experience, and are great fun in a particular way. The owner does have his airs, but most of his claims about what he produces are uninflated and without ego. I buy his products.

The second company is the youngest of the three, and one of its principals used to be related to Company #1. There is a broad streak of "truth if you don't look too hard at it" in their advertising, but also a lot of ego. I will consider buying from this company, but have to date only done so once.

The third company is old, though not quite up to Company #1's age, IIRC. The principal of this company whines, moans, self-aggrandizes, bends truth like a pretzel, and has a long and bitter history relating to the rest of the industry, including not paying his writers on lame excuses. The vast majority of what I own from this company was bought secondhand, as I won't add to his sales figures, and haven't since his nature became apparent.

I guess if I really, really need the figures badly enough, then I can put up with some unpleasant behavior. If I can find a close alternative, then I will do so. I will also buy products that cost more from a company that provides superior customer service over one that has the same product for a lower cost but cops an attitude.

I had a "bad email" from one seller/trader. Seems he had a bad week and vented on me, the customer. I will NEVER order from him again.

The ONLY places where I've had snooty service were in stores run by a company that thinks it has copyrighted wargaming. Funny thing, in stores from Edinburgh, Scotland to Northridge, CA, the attitude has been consistently snooty. Now, I'm not in their perceived demographic (mommie doesn't buy my toys--not the Eisenhower was president), but I've got a nice chunk of disposable income they ainna gonna get, nohow, noway. Now their stuff is drop dead gorgeous, but those salespeople killed my interest.

Let me add that the best service I've has was in two SoCal stores: Last Grenadier and Brookhurst. And I might just buy Space Hulk from Last Grenadier when I'm in Burbank next Tuesday cause they're just nice guys. So, the attitude of the staff really does affect my purchasing habits.

Level of unpleasantness versus how much I want whatever they are selling and its availability elsewhere. If the seller's irritation factor is higher than my need/want of the product I will do without or go elsewhere. If they are the only source I way that into the mix, but I will not buy from someone I can not stand.

Jeff

I buy stuff from rude, pompous people all the time. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to listen to probably half of the music that I do.

I will buy stuff off of people that are pompous if I want the product and there isn't another way to get it or something similar.

Dwarven Forge comes to mind. I ordered a Gamma Sci-Fi Expansion set that had malformed parts and badly painted pieces (splashed paint and fingerprints) a while ago. I sent them an email complaining about the problem and they told me they had to get Gencon out of the way first.
That was now two Gencons ago.
Don't get me started on the broken pieces of the Alpha Expansion Set I bought.

I haven't had much trouble with the companies involved in wargaming. For the most part, they're cordial enough. My trouble was always with the hobby/comic shops and their seeming disgust for newcomers into their stores. When I get the ones who won't get off their butts to deal with their customers, I'll just leave.

The best shopkeeper I've encountered was in Gettysburg, Pa. The man running the place had such a contagious enthusiasm for his product that I found myself spending far more than I should have.

As Murphy stated yes all aspects do matter.
Some dealers I can get along with and do business.
Some I can get along with but cannot do business with.
Some I can get along with but cannot do business with. Some I can get along with and can do business with.

But this same set of assocaitions as listed above also applies to customers.
The level of needing a product that someone has and you need as a gamer often dictates your sttitude to their attitude.

CC,

To answer your questions, Yes to both. But allow me to add a small twist to this: What about the customer's attitude towards the vendor?

I acquired BSM 3 years ago. The gentleman that I acquired the range from has a few enemies out there in the world of gaming. Now I have always found him to be pleasant enough. He was very helpful in getting me started, and both he and his wife were very hospitable to me when I went to visit them at their home. Yet, the fact remains, he has a few strained relationships, which have become my burden to bear.

I don't know the full story. I tend to think its a case of mistaken identity given the claims made against both my predecessor and myself via my association with him. Apparently some services were allegedly paid for and not rendered. Whatever… its not really important to me. What is important to me is the fact that I have repeatedly made attempts to communicate with these individuals, advise them that I had no part in their transactions gone sour, asked what I could do to earn their friendship, if not trust and business, and I have been repeatedly ignored (at best) or vilified for my association with said predecessor, tp the point that these individuals have stated that they would advise their friends and fellow gamers to never buy from me. I know this was a long sentence so please accept my apologies (all the Grammar majors out there…lol)…

I'm trying to run a business, and have some fun while doing so. For the most part, I've been successful at both. However, I've found myself having to mend fences, that I didn't break, and frankly, sometimes its a chore. I feel that I am putting on a false face, trying to be pleasant to someone who has been nothing short of a complete jerk to me, for no good reason. So it goes both ways… sometimes vendors have to deal with rudeness too.

There will always be an 'expert' out there who disagrees with the style of helmet, number of buttons, and whether or not the turnbacks were worn turned back or closed. I'm usually up for a healthy, friendly debate, but when the customer turns the corner and starts getting rude and insulting (the self-aggrandizing types) my normal defense is to simply ask them if they were there or not. That quickly ends the debate and off they go. Is it the right thing to do? Probably not. Does it cost me a sale on occasion? Probably so. Do I really care? No, not so much. I would much rather lose a sale of a few bucks than deal with the 3 day migraine that comes along with dealing with a jerk. Rudy knows what I'm talking about, as we've dealt with the same jerks just moments apart.

Don't get me wrong CC, there are a tremendous amount of good people in our community, that are a joy to game with, talk with, and have a drink with. As with anything else, there is always one in the crowd that has to ruin it for everyone. If I caused his ire, then I deserve the bad press and the headaches that come with it. However, if I have to inherit someone else's mess, all I ask is for a chance to clean it up. If they don't even want to give me the chance, then you just need to walk away, because I have been known to give as much as I receive.

Good thread CC… thank you for providing me with an opportunity to post my thoughts.

1) Does the personality of the seller/manufacturer matter to you when you place an order?

*NJH: Normally I don't know their personality, I'm much too low in the hobby pecking order. However, I wouldn't buy from an , not even if I need a vital organ.

In other words, are you willing to deprive yourself of products you wish you had, as long as you know you are contributing to the success of only those you feel are deserving individuals?

*NJH: Sounds fair to me.

2) Or do/would you buy from a seller/manufacturer that is horrible in customer relations, as long as you get your figures and, in the process, risk inflating his/her ego further?

*NJH: Not knowingly.

Lou From BSM: "What about the customer's attitude towards the vendor?"

I agree with you. Excellent points there. Business owners have all sorts of customers (or potential customers). Some would tax anyone's patience to the max.

I certainly don't believe that "the customer is always right". But if, as a customer, you make every effort to deal with a manufacturer in civil and professional terms, but every reply you get (when you get one) is rude, one has to wonder what is wrong with the other person, and if you really want to help them stay in business.

CC

An adage I picked up second-hand states that "The Customer is always right, but not everyone wishing to 'do business' with you is a Customer. The trick to successful Customer relations is identifying the non-Customers quickly."

Okay, guys.

Good news, I think. The person in question has recognized his text and emailed me with a very hopeful message.

I understand people have rough moments. Life is a series of ups and downs. I should know. I've had my share. A combination of personal and business challenges can test the best of us.

Sometimes it lasts a few days, but sometimes it gives the impression that the out-of-character behavior is the norm in that individual.

However, after reading his email a couple of times, I think this is one of those situations where the person deserves the benefit of the doubt. I shouldn't jump to conclusions just yet with this one.

I will give him another chance. But the future will tell whether or not my new decision is correct.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I was beginning to doubt myself, feeling as though I was being hasty or irrational.

Glad to have you guys around, to share ideas and feelings.

Thanks again.

Dan
PS. However, as a general discussion on your consumer practices, which is how this discussion first started, I am still interested in what you guys have done in the past or have had to deal with recently.

I ain't too bothered about snooty if they get the job done.

But there is one company I will never buy from because of the crap spouted on TMP by the folks that run it. I don't want people with opinions and attitudes like that to have any of my money, thank you.

My experience was running into these type of folks at local gaming/comic stores as well. I give everyone a second chance but when you are not willing to stop your discussion about how cool LARPing is, then I am leaving and not coming back….

I tend to bear a grudge, so if someone is snooty with me, they won't get my business again. And I always make a point of telling 10 people about my bad experience, just to remain statistically consistent with the wisdom spouted by customer service trainers.

As much of my buying is online, it comes down to customer service and website design/maintenance more than personality, as rarely do I get the chance to actually "talk" to the seller. The few of them I see at the local cons have been quite pleasant, very patient, and laugh politely at my bad jokes. Maybe I'm gaming the wrong "periods" to find the snooty sellers? :)

Al | rivetsandsteam.com

price is the biggest factor in what I buy something from anyone. over priced mini have stopped me from buying lots of them,

I've met a few traders who were pretty snooty with oak leaves and diamonds. Luckily they don't sell anything I need.

The vast majority are pretty cool people and a pleasure to deal with.

there is a maker of some nice 18th Century Figures which I would love to buy, but I have this discovered that this person can be pretty obnoxious and for some reason (and I don't know why), dislikes me. I've never said a dang thing to the guy but on former posts here, and listings on others sites, he's brought up my name a couple of times in his rants

That'd be "Gentleman" Frank Hammond, then…

I think this is one of those situations where the person deserves the benefit of the doubt. I shouldn't jump to conclusions just yet with this one.

Very wise. Snapping at someone is a good way to put them off. Conversely, making allowances for someone's bad day can start a friendship. But it is easier to burn bridges than to build them!

Buy from snooty people only when I have too. In the end they get the bare minimum of my funds .

CC, my purchases and continued relationships (not
personal) are contingent upon the quality of the
product(s) and the quality of the service.

I, like DJCoaltrain, am waaaay too low in the pecking
order to have personal relationships with many dealers/
publishers/manufacturers (but a few !).

Those with whom I interact are all nice people, at least
to me.

Yes, this is not news. We all know that if you like the salesman you are more apt to buy the product sometimes even when you don't need it. Now if it is a saleslady and you are a guy you are sold for sure and you will take two. Heehee.. :)

I would only buy from the guy with bad customer relations guy if he had something TOTALLY UNIQUE that a reasonable substitute could not be found anywhere. I'm tired of bad service and I'm not going to spend my money on bad service…one of the reasons I stopped buying at Emperor's Headquarters when they were on Irving Park Road – the help was an idiot (and I don't mean an idiot savant) and insisted on telling people.

That'd be "Gentleman" Frank Hammond, then…

Who???

Okay, you mean there's ANOTHER ONE out there that hates me???…wow…now all I have to do is wait for the torches and pitchforks…

1) Does the personality of the seller/manufacturer matter to you when you place an order? In other words, are you willing to deprive yourself of products you wish you had, as long as you know you are contributing to the success of only those you feel are deserving individuals?

When I make inquiries about a product, even if my questions are the most basic and simple, I expect a polite answer. If I'm put off by the seller, I do without.

2) Or do/would you buy from a seller/manufacturer that is horrible in customer relations, as long as you get your figures and, in the process, risk inflating his/her ego further?

The only place I've encountered any such behaviour is on eBay. And then, it only seems to affect the starting price, the "buy now" price and the shipping estimate. Alternately, they're refusal to ship north to Canada. In these cases, yes, I'll forgo the object of my obsession.

Snootiness is a turn off and beyond a certain level it will drive me away.
But I've avoided buying from people for all sorts of reasons…
There used to be a guy who posted on here who makes great stuff, but ran away in a huff and posted nasty comments about TMP on another site… so, sadly, I won't go near his stuff now… despite his never having been rude to me personally.

Not really the topic here but seeing store owners mistreat their help staff is another way to make sure I don't come back.

It all factors into how I spend my money. I am less likely to send money their way if a seller is rude, has poor service, spouts political stuff I consider offensive (not just from a different viewpoint), overprices their goods, etc.

I only have two sellers that I won't buy anything from, both of whom sell gaming figures and supplies for periods in which I have a big investment. The first is an outspoken person who constantly rails against HMGS East on these boards. I don't really care one way or the other about HMGS East, but I'm tired of hearing the rants and choose to spend my money elsewhere.

The second is a very well-regarded seller here. They have a lot of people willing to help with an update to their rulesets, but after many years have not released anything and refuse to allow anyone but their inner circle to have access to the updates. Since I'm not part of that circle and it has been years since the last update, I choose to spend my money on figures elsewhere.

I spoke to a vendor who recently stopped two people form being able to buy from their store.

I look at it very simply. I try to treat everyone the way I would want to be treated. I try to be nice and helpful to everyone and talk about a product if they ask questions.

We all have our bad days and sometimes let off steam when we shouldn't. It hasn't happened to me more than a time or two. I will say that it usually is provoked by a customer being a jerk and having a bad attitude to start. Wrong place wrong time I guess.

However, there are many times throughout the year (albeit a very small number of customers) I find myself rewriting an email/biting my lip at a convention or on the phone/(Insert other undeserved restraint) because of downright rude behavior towards me or someone at my booth at a convention/on the phone/in an email.

I am even nice to those who were rude in the past, assuming that the current transaction will be different.

I have A LOT of restraint in these situations, yet little patience (as I mutter under my breath.) There is no reason anyone needs to be nasty for any reason. I just never will understand some people.

At conventions I inevitably hear from some customers and they ask why this dealer or that dealer are so rude. I never know how to respond except to say maybe they are having a bad day.

1) Does the personality of the seller/manufacturer matter to you when you place an order?

Artists can be temperamental folks, I can forgive some frothing and foaming. This behavior isn't as acceptable to me when it comes from a business owner. Shops (online or not) are the conduit where artists can find an audience in a professional setting. The rub is that in many cases with miniatures the artist is the salesman! Sellers who are artists as well have to learn to walk that line. Their learning process is probably going to include scraps with the clientele. If they don't figure out how to handle themselves they won't be in business for long.

2) Or do/would you buy from a seller/manufacturer that is horrible in customer relations, as long as you get your figures and, in the process, risk inflating his/her ego further?

If I am getting my figures (with a fair shipping cost) the guy is doing his job. If I get a religious or political tract with each shipment of minis I buy I will probably look elsewhere.

1) Yes, sometimes.

2) Yes, sometimes I should like to have done so.

For example, an eBay seller by the handle "16james59" insists in condescending replies that his auctions state "UK only", and that the potential bidder "learn how to use Ebay and understand what the info means".

However, no such "UK only" text is anywhere visible, at least not to potential bidders. Moreover, the text "Paypal only please from overseas buyers" implies that non-UK sales are, indeed, possible.

If the seller is a jerk, for any reason, he DOES NOT GET MY MONIES! No Ifs, Ands or Buts.

Will it deprive me some some cool minis/terrain/rules? So be it.

I have cancelled orders due to rude behavior, but it has usually never prevented me from going back if there is a deal to be had.

On the other hand, there is one individual whose financial success I completely refuse to contribute to. I don't buy this author's books either from retailers or on the secondary market. They guy is undoubtedly a subject matter expert, and probably a good guy too, but I completely object to one of his publicly held beliefs.

- Eric