"The Belgian Army 1940" Topic

Hi, looking for TO&E and OOB for the above, specifically at Company level, Infantry and armour.

Does anyone other than Pithead make these in 10mm. Specifically looking for
link

link

link

Also is there a painting guide – again both infantry and armour.

thanks in advance
jon

Have you seen this website, might give you some of what you are looking for

be4046.eu/Intro.htm

or this one, what you will find is that there is a lot of info but it is mainly in French.

link

pete

Have you looked at the Pithead Polish range as well -- I think some of these are similar to Belgium vehicles.

I don't think any of the other manufacturers has as wide an early war range as Pithead.

just be careful The Belgian army did not use 75mm schneider guns, nor did they use 81 mm mortars

Couple of links I found useful on the Belgians were:

For TOE's try Leo Neihorster's page at:

link

You can also find company level organisations at:

link

Hope that gives you some ideas. You shouldn't need much armour, the Belgians had very little!

If you want a copy of the actual dispositions map on 10 May 1940 join the Yahoo ToE group and look in the files area. Its a big file (45Mb!!)

Cheers
KRO

hi,would love the dispositions but as i am not a supporting member, i cannot pm.

jon

Sorry I can't find the site I orginally got it from (it was in 2005!) but its not on the yahoo group I thought it was.

I'll try and track the site down for you.

Cheers
KRO

well there were about 250 of the quite potent T13 tankdestroyers about and about 40 T15 tanks. So more armour than you think

the T13 tank destroyer isn't on the list as far as I can see, where would they fit in?

jon

Here are a couple of detailed sites. In French though. The
CAMPAGNE 1940 site though does have diagrams that might be helpful. Robert

clham.org/050341.htm
link

Careful on company organisations – pre-war each infantry section had an LMG and a 50mm DBT (as per the Jeff Mason list linked to earlier), but by the time of the German offensive they'd restructured. For a comprehensive breakdown try here:

link

The fifth post down, by "daveh" is the one you want. Note that the "support platoon" isn't heavy weapons and suchlike (which we wargamers always assume when "support" is mentioned), but the company's HQ and administrative tail. Oh, and yes, the platoons are huge. In practice many units were understrength of course, but this was more of a problem in reserve formations – at least some regular units really were that strong.

Dom.

PS – Note that Chasseurs Ardennais used their own structure – can't remember specifics offhand, but the 4 sections are replaced by two 14 or 15-man sections, with 2 LMGs in each, for a platoon of just over 40 rather than 65….

PPS – T-13s were spread across the army; most if not all regular divisions had a company of them to augment their towed anti-tank guns:
link
(I'm not sure this list is 100% right (never trust wikipedia….) but it seems in the right ballpark – I suspect the data is lifted from Zaloga's Blitzkrieg, in which case there may be the odd detail error, but the gist's OK.)

Ciaphas

The map I was referring to can be found here:

PDF link

Its 33Mb and needs some cutting and pasting to complete but may be of assistance to you.

Cheers
KRO

Does anyone know the identity ot the regiment that uses a white Unicorns head as a symbol that can be seen on the turret of a T13 in the Zolaga Blitzkrieg book. I would also be interested in informantion about any other Belgium regimental symbols not identified in this book.

Do you have an ISBN # for the Zaloga book?

thanks
pete

I had a Great Uncle that faught with the Belgian's.

0-85368-334-4 (1990, Arms and Armour Press) and definitely worth picking up; it was pretty much the first reference book I bought when I get into wargaming, and 15 years later is still one of the most used….

thank you, Dom

pete

Organisation of a belgian infantry battalion may 1940 active regiment

Battalion

Has a total of 22 officers + 77 NCOs + 857 men
organised into

Battalion HQ: 6 + 7 + 72
3 Fusilier Companies each 4 + 19 + 207
1 MG Company with 4 + 13 + 164

Fusilier Company:
Overall total: 4 Officers + 19 NCOs + 207 men

Company HQ: A platoon with 1 + 4 + 30

3 platoons each with 1 + 5 + 59 organised as

platoon HQ of 1 + 0 + 2
and 4 groupes de combat each consisting of

1 sergeant in command of the Groupe and
1 FM squad corporal 5 men 1 LMG
1 FG squad corporal 5 men

plus
1 D.B.T. squad of 10 men and 3 D.B.T.

a platoon was equipped with
3 D.B.T. Lance grenade
2 Pistolets lance fusee Hebel 26.5 mm flare pistols
9 Browning 9mm GP 35 pistols
52 FN M 1935/36 7.65mm rifles
4 FN 30 7.65 mm LMG

Machine gun Company
4 + 13 + 164

MG Company HQ
1+7 + 56

3 MG Platoons
each 1 + 2 + 36 organised into

Platoon HQ 1+ 0+ 2
and 2 MG sections each of 0 + 1 + 17

1 MG section has
Section HQ 0 + 1 + 1
2 MGs with 0 + 0 + 8 each

1 MG Company has
3 pistolets lance fusee Hebel 26.5mm flare pistols
43 Browning 9mm GP 35 pistols
1 FN 1910 or 1910/22 7.65mm pistol
12 Heavy MGs Maxim MG08 in 7.65mm
137 FN 1916 carbines

The Jeff Mason details are at best for an early 1930s unit.

The Belgians never used Boys AT rifles in any of their units
The 75mm L24 Bofors M34 mountain guns were only issued to an artillery regiment.
There wer no 81 mm mortars in any Belgian infantry unit.
Rifles were an updated version of the Fusil 1889 designed to fire a new bullet design. They were called the Fusil M 1935 and M1936

Belgian field artillery was formed mostly around the Krupp 7.5cm from WW1. Some were converted Krupp 7.7cm received as war reparations.

numbers of Belgian artillery pieces May 1940
including guns held in training units

318 75mm GP
408 75mm TR
20 75 mm Bofors

220 105 mm howitzers
84 105mm guns

48 120mm cockerill guns

80 6" howitzers

156 155mm howitzers

76 150 or 155mm guns

40 220 mm mortars

6 170mm, 5 280mm, 1 305 mm railway guns

Gun types:
1: Canon de 75 modele 1934: Swedish designed (Bofors) mountain gun.

2: Canon de 75 mle TR: licence built version of the Krupp M06 field gun.

3: Canon de 75mm GPI: a German 10.5cm le FH16 howitzer with its barrel replaced by a lengthened version of the Canon de 75 mle TR

4: Canon de 75mm GPII: A German 7.7cm FK 16 converted to take a lengthened 75mm barrel.

5: Canon de 75mm GPIII: A German 7.7cm FK 16 with a 7.5cm sleeve inserted. This seems to have been the most numerous of these three conversions.

6: Canon de 105 mle 1913: A French, Schneider design

7: Obusier de 105mm GP: WW1 German design.

8: Canon de 120 L mle 1931: A Belgian design.

9: Obusier de 150 L/17: the German WW1 design 15ch sFH 13

10: Canon de 150 L/43: German design , 15cm K16

11: Obusier de 6": British WW1 6" howitzer

12: Obusier de 155: French design, Canon de 155 C mle 1917 Schneider

13: Canon de 155 L mle 1917 Schneider: WW1 French design – a long barrelled version of the above.

14: Canon de 155 mle 1924: Belgian design.

15: Mortier de 220 TR mle 1916 Scneider: French WW1 design,

Allocation of Artillery Guns:

Type……………………Artillery Regiments in

75mm Canon TR: ………Infantry Divisions
75mm GP :……………. Infantry Divisions and Cavalry corps
75mm Bofors…………..Chasseur Ardennais Divisions
Obusier de 105 mm…….Infantry Divisions 1-12 and Corps
Canons de 105 mm …….Corps
Canons de 120 mm……..Corps
Obusiers de 6" …………Chasseur Ardennais
Obusiers de 155………..Corps
Canons de 150………….Army Artillery Regiments
Canons de 155………….Army Artillery Regiments
Mortiers de 220 mm……Army Artillery Regiments
Railway guns …………..Army Artillery Regiments