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"15mm Slammers combat car suggestions" Topic


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darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP29 Aug 2009 8:58 p.m. PST

Not that I'm going to give in to temptation (curse you, GZG and Rebel Minis!), but if…just IF I lost my mind and started into 15mm sci-fi madness, are there any suggestions for Hammer's Slammers-style combat cars BESIDES Old Crow's?

I know they're the "official" ones (even if they look nothing like any cover art or illustration I've seen), but they look too much like shoes for my taste.

Granted, they do add a more literal aspect to "kicking" ass or giving someone a "taste of the boot" while fighting…

Legion 429 Aug 2009 9:13 p.m. PST

Ah … regardless of the old book covers … the Old Crow models were approved by Drake himself … So If Drake likes them thats good enough for me … grin

Top Gun Ace29 Aug 2009 9:56 p.m. PST

I like the looks of the hover jeeps they sell.

I agree on the vehicles though.

They look nothing like the book covers, sadly.

Eli Arndt29 Aug 2009 10:33 p.m. PST

I'm not so sure you'll find anything in 15mm other than the Old Crow stuff. You could try kitbashing your own or look at Force XXI.

As for book covers, I tend to place little merit in the "accuracy" of book covers ever since I learned that in many if not most cases, the author has absolutely no say on what goes on the cover his book. That being said, there is some really good stuff done on book covers.

GZG's 25mm Combat Cars are cool and I always wish they would do 15mm versions of them. I am not sure if that flies in the face of the licensing agreements for the various game products for the Slammers game, but maybe someday Jon will do 15mm Combat Cars of his own.

There are some flat bed vehicles in GZG's line that might make a good start for building your own 15mm Combat Cars.

-Eli
leadpeople.blogspot.com

Dropship Horizon30 Aug 2009 12:24 a.m. PST

Depending how big you envisage your Combat Cars, I suggest using as a basis for conversion either:

GZG V15-45A High-tech Grav Armoured Carrier Sled (open flatbed)

or smaller:

GZG V15-43A High-tech Grav Light Tank

The top of the hull is removeable on the Light Tank and provides a good working area for a samllish combat car. I suggest the tank because it's the same price as the other High-tech Light Grav models and you can use the turret as a defence turret or kitbash another vehicle.

Cheers
Mark
dropshiphorizon.blogspot.com

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2009 5:43 a.m. PST

I totally missed the armored carrier sleds, Mark. Those look like a great base to start from. Great idea!

GZG's 25mm Combat Cars are cool and I always wish they would do 15mm versions of them.

Indeed. :)

Thanks for the suggestions, folks!

Legion 430 Aug 2009 7:01 a.m. PST

But … most of those covers were done before the Old Crow models were made & later approved by Drake … I know one of the model designers told me it took Drake a number of attempts before he decided on these … So if he wanted a version from one of the book covers … he would have chosen one of those instead on the Old Crow versions … However do what works for you … evil grin And I was not a fan of any of the book covers … Frankly, for me this link says it all … link He said this was what he was thinking of when he wrote the books …

Eli Arndt30 Aug 2009 9:13 a.m. PST

Thanks for the heads-up on the GZG models Mark. I' not familiar enough with their line to give as detailed a suggestion as you did.

Also, I was not aware that the light tank had a removable troop deck like that. I may have to pick a few up to kill two birds with one stone. I need some light turrets and would like to make some combat cars too.

Went and checked the site and all of the V15-43 through V15-45 would work well to capture the style of the Combat Cars depicted on many of the covers and even in GZG's own 25mm line.
The only thing really missing are the fan ducts in the top deck.

-Eli
leadpeople.blogspot.com

Agent Smith30 Aug 2009 10:28 a.m. PST

Darthfozzywig,

While I don`t do; or am ever likely to do 15mm, I couldn`t agree more with you about the Old Crow Hammer's Slammers vehicles, excellent castings that they are, they sure are ugly and I have always prefered the GZG designs which look like tanks and combat cars and not like training shoes LOL.

My real aim is to get Jon to do some 6mm versions of his 25mm stuff, although if he did 15mm slammers I may have to buy some models in that scale to do HS justice, but I would much prefer 6mm.

One can hope though, good luck with the search.

AS

Legion 430 Aug 2009 10:49 a.m. PST

Hopefully Old Crow will do their official Slammer M2, M9, Jeep & Hog in 6mm … they said they would but … frown

Eli Arndt30 Aug 2009 11:03 a.m. PST

Personally, I don't mind the Old Crow designs but think there is nothign wrong with having more designs available or making your own. Heck, if anything, you could have two forces using different types of Combat Cars.

-Eli

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP31 Aug 2009 8:26 a.m. PST

He said this was what he was thinking of when he wrote the books

In that case, happily, he never described them "accurately".

"Tribarrels blazing, the giant iridium track shoe slipped over the hill, racing down the slope as if in the 100-meter sprint. Powerguns sent bursts streaming forth like angry shoelaces…"

Prior to receiving a check for licensed miniatures (and an RPG supplement from Mongoose), his basis for the combat cars was the ACAVs in Vietnam. Come to think of it, I might look into converting those…

Eli Arndt31 Aug 2009 8:33 a.m. PST

Prior to receiving a check for licensed miniatures (and an RPG supplement from Mongoose), his basis for the combat cars was the ACAVs in Vietnam. Come to think of it, I might look into converting those…

"Basis" is a very broad term. His vehicles have always been described with an open crew deck. They sound a lot more like the improvised gun trucks as far as the deck is concerned. I do have a bunch of ACAVs gathering dust that might need some sort of similar conversions, just the same.

-Eli

Dropship Horizon31 Aug 2009 11:01 a.m. PST

I totally missed the armored carrier sleds, Mark. Those look like a great base to start from. Great idea!

I know, I'm amazed by my own brilliance sometimes! LOL!

Now I've seen the new GZG pintle gunners, picture I'm tempted to create my own GZG Combat Cars!

Cheers
Mark

Dropship Horizon31 Aug 2009 11:57 a.m. PST

Just done a quick test using a GZG V15-43A High-tech Grav Light Tank. I can fit 2 gunners easily and a third with a bit of a squeeze.

I'll pop it up on the blog tomorrow.

Cheers
Mark
dropshiphorizon.blogspot.com

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP31 Aug 2009 12:24 p.m. PST

Just done a quick test using a GZG V15-43A High-tech Grav Light Tank. I can fit 2 gunners easily and a third with a bit of a squeeze.

I love you.

Top Gun Ace31 Aug 2009 1:00 p.m. PST

You could probably use their skimmers/air-rafts as combat cars, especially if you arm them with the new GZG releases.

Dropship Horizon31 Aug 2009 2:02 p.m. PST

Sorry Top Gun, I think they remain just an armed skimmer/air-raft.

Take a look at my idea which I've demonstrated in outline here on Dropship Horizon: link

Once I get a set of the pintle gunners from Jon, I'llkitbash a Combat Car in full this week.

Cheers
Mark

Eli Arndt31 Aug 2009 2:29 p.m. PST

Mark,

It looks good, but I don't suppose we could get a top down pic? It's a bit hard to judge the overall spacial relation in the open back section at the angle in your pic. Looks way too small in that pic.

Love the idea and cataloguing it in "must use" file.

-Eli

Dropship Horizon01 Sep 2009 3:09 a.m. PST

Will do Eli once I start my full kitbash later in week.

Cheers
Mark

Legion 401 Sep 2009 9:30 a.m. PST

Well besides the pic of Drake holding the O/C M2 & M9 … which sold it for me … I commanded a company of M113's('87-'89), which is a same as an ACAV save for the small turret around the TC's hatch … Which we had on our M113s in the ROK('84-'85). Believe an M113 is not a very good ballistic design … The only basis for an M113/ACAV and an M9 Combat Car is the fact that the M113 has a .50 HMG on the TC's cupola and an M60 MG can be mounted on both sides of the Troop hatch behind the TC's position … The 3 Tri-barrels are mounted in a similar manner on the M9 … Besides I read all the Slammer books and commanded an M113 Mech Co. … So I'm sticking with O/C's Drake Approved M9s … evil grin But as I always say … Do what works for you …

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP01 Sep 2009 9:42 a.m. PST

Hi Legion!

I see you've made four posts on this "suggestions BESIDES Old Crow's" thread…three of which are saying "BUT DRAKE APPROVED OLD CROW!!!!" That cry for attention really should be heeded.

We're all really glad you like Old Crow's design and are happy it got a stamp of approval from Mr. Drake. That really is super! Yay!

For my part, I couldn't care less what the author approves of in hindsight after getting a paycheck. It's pretty clear he never really had a clear idea of what a combat car looks like, since he never really went into a very detailed description. It just wasn't that important to the story. Now that someone handed him a design he could say "Yeah, sure, that's great!" Good for him!


But as I always say … Do what works for you …

That's why I started a thread saying "suggestions BESIDES Old Crow's". ;)

Feel free to start your own "David Drake said he approves Old Crow's design – I love no other!" thread. I'll even be a sport and not post over and over on it pointing out how much like a featureless shoe it is. :)

Eli Arndt01 Sep 2009 10:49 a.m. PST

Um…Darth…relax.

Though I agree Legion may be a bit off point with his remarks, the direct attack on his posts really isn't warranted.

As for your opinions on Drake, I think that it's pretty clear based on the lack of really solid Drake-based gaming stuff over the long years of fandom and attempts at gaming his stuff, that he's really not the money-grubbing sort who would slap his name on anyone who drove a hovertruck full of money up to his door.

You are right that he never clearly defines what they look like, but that doesn't mean that the artist working on Old Crow's project didn't finally show him somethign that was what in his mind's eye had been seeing. Also, we don't know how amny designs got scrapped.

I'd love to see some of the interum designs, myself and maybe see them made into alternate miniatures to fill out the line. Though, with the nature of computer modelling there may not be any early designs as they may simply have tweaked the same one until they got it right.

Bringing it all together, the M113 ACAV to hover gun car isn't a bad idea. I worked up a cheap and dirty picture edit in Paint to show how the addition of a simple skirt would work.

picture

Nothing pretty but a little scifi drag should do it good.

I'd love to see Jon convert some of his 25mm Slammers style stuff to 15mm. They even fit the styling of his current line of 15mm

Eli
leadpeople.blogspot.com

ZeroGee201 Sep 2009 10:57 a.m. PST

The problem is that the combat car as described in the books is a bit Tardis-like – you simply CANNOT make it work as written. I suspect that David had the overall size of the M113 ACAV in mind when he wrote the books, and of course that is a vertical-slab-sided box; but in at least one of the books, the combat car is described as having a sloped deck all around the fighting compartment that it is possible to stand on (albeit precariously), and then the skirt flares out from there – the end result of trying to represent this is that the footprint of the vehicle is HUGE, almost a big as the blower tanks. In an attempt to get round this, when I did our early design (after much discussion with John Treadaway for the original Warlords' Slammers game) I did the skirt slanted inwards rather than out – and STILL had to make the sides of the hull almost vertical. This is the problem that Jez had with his OC design – by the time you've put the fighting compartment in the middle, there simply isn't room to keep it within the kind of overall size the books imply, while still following the rest of the written descriptions – hence it either ends up WAY too big, OR like a baby's trainer! ;-)

Jon (GZG)

Eli Arndt01 Sep 2009 11:10 a.m. PST

I never got the impression they were all that small in the stories, so it never phased me.

BTW, Jon, please scale down the Blowers and Combat Cars you did for the Warlords games.

-Eli

Dropship Horizon01 Sep 2009 11:11 a.m. PST

I'm glad I don't do Slammers. Falkenberg's Legion are my boys.

Cheers
Mark

Legion 401 Sep 2009 12:12 p.m. PST

Sorry Darth … frown I did not mean to upset you huh? … Do What Works For You … Not Me … I guess, Drake's experience with the ACAV & mine … I figured we kind of had the same concept … So that worked for me … But I can see not for you … peace So enjoy … Hey emu … Thats a pretty good rendition of a 113 GEV ! thumbs up

Eli Arndt01 Sep 2009 1:21 p.m. PST

It's amazing what you can do with images found online. grin

-Eli

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP01 Sep 2009 4:00 p.m. PST

Sorry, Legion, I think I went overboard there. :D

Eli Arndt01 Sep 2009 4:31 p.m. PST

We still love you Darth grin

This topic is very interesting, to be honest. I am a big fan of making one thing into another. I have turned M20 Scout Cars from WW2 into hover scouts and M557 Sheridans into hovertanks

link

Let us know what you come up with and please show them when you have something to show.

-Eli

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP01 Sep 2009 6:38 p.m. PST

Oooooh nice project, Eli!

By the way, a friendly curse to all of you who are luring me into 15mm sci-fi. I really didn't want to switch scales, but I find myself inching well over the line.

And you should see the pile of 15mm MBA buildings that just arrived from my GenCon order. Yes, I've lost my mind. @_@

Legion 401 Sep 2009 6:40 p.m. PST

No problem, Darth ! grin I think some of the GZG models you all were talking about, would make good M9 type vehicles … I myself have looked at GZG and others to find 6mm models that could be used as M2s & M9s … I may have go that route since O/C probably won't do anything like the Slammer vehicles in 6mm, anytime soon … frown But … I've got more then enough 6mm SyFy to work on … old fart

Eli Arndt01 Sep 2009 6:59 p.m. PST

Correction, should have been M551 not M557. I have both in my collection and get them confused.

Darthy, thanks for your kind words. Welcome to 15mm. You too will soon know the madness of tiny men. I suggest you really try bashing out your own vehicles. Nothing like bringing a vehicle to the table that nobody else has.

-Eli

Legion 401 Sep 2009 7:19 p.m. PST

Yes, I had an M577 Command Track in Korea … Not an M551 Light Airborne Amphibious Assault Vehicle … The only guys who use those are the 82d Airborne & the OPFOR at NTC … evil grin

Eli Arndt01 Sep 2009 7:22 p.m. PST

The M551 is really good conversion bait for sci-fi.

-Eli

John Treadaway08 Sep 2009 1:48 a.m. PST

I'm biased…

John T

Dropship Horizon08 Sep 2009 3:11 a.m. PST

take a look at the Force XXI Grav and GEC 'trucks' lot's of potential there.

Cheers
Mark

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