"HMGS HISTORICAL ISSUES" Topic

Concerning Toby Barrett's allegations posted on one of the move to Baltimore threads:

Based on a quicken disk provided to me by the treasurer (Dick Sossi-now with the Maryland House of Delegates) in April of 1997 with the results from COLDWARS 97 just in, the money on hand in the treasury the month I left office (July 1995) was slightly over $60,000 USD . The money on hand at the end of April was a bit over $30,000 USD . Unfortunately even if I could locate the disk no current computer could read it. But those were the figures I remembered.

A couple of months later with much of the income received (vendors and pre-registrants) and none of the expenses incurred the newsletter reported $56,000 USD on hand.

As for the the Consensus BOD taking 18 months to overcome the problems of the "Asleep at the wheel" Old Guard, typically Toby is economical of the truth*.

During my administration I used the prompting of my nemesis Mr. Giglio to get the BOD to mandate a post convention financial report for each convention. None was submitted for COLDWARS 95-the election was heating up and we didn't compel Bob Watts to do a financial report before HISTORICON. Bob Watts was elected to the CONSENSUS BOD and didn't bother.

Bob Coggins did submit one in the September 1994 newsletter for HISTORICON 94 (his last convention.) I submitted one for every convention I ran.

We were not asleep at the wheel. The CONSENSUS BOD however, doesn't seem to have known there was a wheel until COLDWARS 97 ran aground.

Two activity financial reports were submitted between 1995 and COLDWARS 97.

James E. Thomas submitted one for HISTORICON 96 which showed a small profit. But when the post CW97 investigations began it was discovered that he had lumped dues (chapter income) with convention revenue, and in fact the show, with a near record attendance, had lost money.

Had the CONSENSUS BOD been anywhere near the wheel they would have noticed in Bob Watts CW96 report part of the reason. If you took Bob Coggins staff costs and divided by the number of staff you would have around $50 USD per staffer. For Bob Watts the figure was almost $150 USD .

Mr. Barrett's diligent investigation into irregularities produced a CW 97 report which appeared in the August Newsletter in a review written by Toby. It showed a net loss on CW 97 of $4,888.78 USD .

It should be noted that the net worth of HMGS EAST climbed throughout the tenure of the "Old Guard," and that by virtue of lower seasonal rates as well as the use of a portable air conditioner for HISTORICON, the bulk had been generated by COLDWARS.

So while Toby falsely claims that the CONSENSUS BOD was taking 18 months to overcome problems created by the OLD GUARD, actually it invented several useless expenses like the scholarship program and failed to notice that even the convention program was losing money.

However, Toby is quite right about my being ostracized by the HMGS SOUTH BOD. Fortunately for HMGS SOUTH, three of the BOD members who removed my friend Chuck Kennedy from the BOD in late 2007 have quit since. Two of them, the President and treasurer have quit since they removed me in September of 2008. Under their administration the attendance has dropped by over 30%. It is not clear what has happened to the treasury. But I think the remaining BOD members are working on clearing things up.

None of the people involved ever were or will be elected to anything. They were appointed to fill vacancies, then secretly changed the ByLaws to eliminate elections forever.

There is also a membership vote going on to see if HMGS SOUTH will have an elected government or continue with self perpetuating oligarchies.

Many of the members have stopped renewing, though some will be coming back in celebration of the last two BOD resignations. However, they have no vote in this exercise.

If the residual membership votes to have elections I will petition for re-admission. Actually, I'm supposed to be a life member by virtue of being awarded the BONNIE BLUE AWARD (HMGS SOUTH'S SCRUBY) for service to the chapter. But "supposed to" meant nothing to the unelected Evil Junta.

Pat Condray

*In the British Parliament one is not supposed to call another member a liar, even if he or she is a liar. To avoid doing so it has become customary to refer to members of that persuasion as being "economical"

*I believe that Churchill used the term "a terminological inexactitude", the OFM added helpfully.

Oh, and pass the popcorn.

I think we're going to need to import popcorn for this one, John. And beer. Lots of beer.

Welcome back from the DH, by the way.

Here's a new poll question: who cares about the state of HMGS-E's finances, circa 1997?

I must admit….the point of this posting is somewhat lost on me. But I did not read Mr. Barrett's comments in the other post.

Here's a new poll question: who cares about the state of HMGS-E's finances, circa 1997?

You have to post the request on the proper board…

Having observed the HMGS ongoing feuds since the days of The Courier, I'm not surprised that it keeps bubbling to the top every now and then. What I am surprised about is why any of the combatants think 99.9% of the gaming community cares and why it can't be resolved elsewhere.

It could be easily resolved, and this would be a far better use of the BCC facilities by HMGS-East than a mere gaming convention:

YouTube link

All I try to do is defend myself when Condray brings this stuff up. Condaray has always been the,,,,well the 'economical' one. If you're not interested then don't read. If Condray can go back to South and leave us alone, all the better.
HI Allen -
I rather prefer my own You Tube Link
YouTube link
I'm the quiet one defending himself and you can guess who the dancing one is……… No popcorn needed – it's a short feature.
Toby Barrett

YAWN!!

What kind of disk was being used in 1997 that can't be read in a modern computer? Was it biodegrade or something?

A 3.5" floppy?

And my preferred metaphor would be: YouTube link

Hmmm. well. OK then. Seems to be some sort of real long term grudge going on here.

Why not just kiss and make up?

This topic might be more interesting:

TMP link

At least it doesn't involve accounting irregularities from 12 years ago!!

Hey now…12 years ago isn't that bad…one of my best friends is still having issues about the way him and his "true love" gf in high school ended….he's bitter about it to this day…
And that was in 1984….

As the question has been said…what disk and what application that can't be read by "modern computers today"? I've still got an old 486 with WIN95 sitting in the closet that will sound like a crop duster starting up, but if it has a floppy we could read it.

I also have a 486 that will read a floppy if needed.

I'm glad to see modern technology put to good use.

I'm glad that the "You did too", "I did not" arguments from the smudgy mimeographed HMGS-East newsletters in the early 1990's have been updated to a modern web-based forum.

I don't think anybody but a small handful of participants cared about any of it back then. I doubt if the number of people who care about any of it has increased since then.

As for old computers, I have a mid-80's vintage 286 in the basement that I'm pretty sure still works.

Oh yeah!
Well, I have a Commodore 64 in the garage, in a box, under a workbench.

….who the hell cares what is on a 20 year old floppy disk?
Someone needs to "move on".

Someone needs to "move on".

I believe the "moving on" was needed back in the early 1990's.

So let me get this straight, Pat Condray got kicked out of South recently, and got recently kicked out of the the original thread on this HMGS Board, and now he keeps spreading it high and wide in a new thread. And it all happened about 12 years ago. Do I have this right? Cripes.

Oh, and Pat has the evidence which is on a computer disc that can no longer be read? Hmmmmmm. Now do I have it all right?

I am still peeved about Hayes-Tilden.

No, really.

First, the most momentous question-what kind of disk was the quicken data storedon in the ancient year 1997. I don't think it was a 3.5" disk. That technology was as yet barely on the horizon. I think it was a 5.25. But I could be mistaken. But I'm pretty sure that the first 18 months of the CONSENSUS BOD achieved a drop from over $60,000 to around $21,000.

Toby did an excellent job of investigating the horrors of CW 97 and even discovering that H96 had lost a bit of money. The effort to prove that the malfeasance of the CONSENSUS BOD was the fault of the "Old Guard" was doomed to failure. Promises of the CONSENSUS and CYABODs to publish a complete and accurate report were never fullfilled.

As to why anybody should care about HMGS EAST finances in 1997, you don't have to if you don't want to.

I don't think history is necessarily bunk, and while to some of you 1997 may appear anti-deluvian, one reason I mention it is that the pattern seems to recur.

A period of operations with positive cash flow tends to lead to an accumulation of money which is sometimes criticized on grounds that if we don't spend it foolishly the IRS will get us. Patently false. HMGS will never have as much money on hand (nor, hopefully, as many liabilities)as, for example, the American Red Cross.

That, or a healthy treasury will lead people to try to find a cure.

For example, going into the Timonium debacle the BOD was inclined to spend unlimited money on a prolonged theme. And when they approved (but did not implement) my "Almanac" project they were willing to simply pay for an impractical version when it was intended to be practically self supporting. The comment was "If it's a good thing we'll just pay for it. We've got lots of money."

Which I term the "Drunken Sailor school of financial management" for obvious reasons.

Following the Timonium debacle and a loss of $4,000 for the fiscal year the BOD panicked. They cancelled a couple of newsletters, eliminated promotions on FALL IN! 04 and raised prices.

That's the Chicken Little or "The Sky is Falling" school of financial management.

In 2005 a decision was made to accumulate a year's budget in cash reserves, or $250,000. That led to raising all the prices which through sticker shock reduced HISTORICON attendance.

But once achieved, one BOD member said "Then we can throw a free convention." But that would sharply reduce the all important cash reserves, and would only save participants a small fraction of the cost of attending the convention.

I don't think that is a good idea.

HMGS EAST and its conventions are vital to the hobby. And I have a paternal interest in both. While none of you, including the editor, may think learning from history is either desirable or possible, I hope that is not the case. The HMGS leadership should avoid treating solvency as a curable disorder and insolvency as an occasion for irrational panic.

As for the decision to raise the dues at HISTORICON 97, well, the CONSENSUS BOD had fallen all over itself trying to reward the voters for their $5 USD contribution. Bill Gray was on that BOD, and he knew how much the newsletter cost. I had found out from him. But until I laid out the cost picture at the Membership Meeting the BOD appeared to be either clueless or disinterested. And their insanity permeated the membership.

I may, however, have been mistaken about the BOD giving me credit for it. At least they did not do so in the August 1997 newsletter. Of course, that report was preliminary. I may be remembering something from the BOD Meeting official report.

If you read this and didn't want to, don't blame me.

First, the most momentous question-what kind of disk was the quicken data storedon in the ancient year 1997. I don't think it was a 3.5" disk. That technology was as yet barely on the horizon.

Er… the 3.5" disk drives were in wide service in the early 1990's. My afore-mentioned Tandy 286 in the basement has one, and it was made in the late 1980's. Macs had 3.5" disk drives in 1984. By 1993 it was getting hard to find a new computer that had a 5.25" disk drive.

I am still peeved about Hayes-Tilden.

Wasn't the Hayes-Tilden one of those small, fully-tracked British machinegun carriers from the 1930's?

I've changed my mind… I now think that this would be the most appropriate metaphor for this and similar threads: YouTube link

;-)

Man some people like to whine…or maybe they just need the attenion so they think they matter.

PC: The more you expound on this the more petty, vindictive and insane it becomes. So far it appears you are the only one with historical issues over HMGS.

It is usually expressed Tilden-Hayes, or loser first as in Franco Prussian War. And best remembered for taking the Reupublican part out of the Civil Rights movement for good.

BuddyBoy2, explain petty and vindictive.

Anyway, I do have an interest in HMGS history, no apology whatever.

Pat

Does anyone make suitable figures for PC, TB, and their forces in 28mm? I think I can scratch build the 3.5" floppy.

Hey, you guys with your 286s, your 486s and your Commodore 64s haven't got anything on me. I have an abuccus (sp?) in my basement!

Tom

Can't we all just get along?

Does anyone make suitable figures for PC, TB, and their forces in 28mm?

I'm only interested if they're in true box scale.

I think I can scratch build the 3.5" floppy.

Yes, but do you measure to the top of the case, or to the level of the eject button?

Query: Why does this matter at all?

Pat are you a corporate lawyer by any chance?

jdg

Query: Why does this matter at all?

Because, John, I remember clearly that in a game in your basement in Hackettstown, back in 1997, I should have gotten another turn of movement for my Union cavalry, but I didn't. I demand justice!

I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure I have it written down on a piece of paper somewhere.

"BuddyBoy2, explain petty and vindictive."

Stupid is as stupid does. And this whole thing is very stupid. You look them up.

Best I can tell from context "petty and vindictive" means that somebody told the truth and you didn't like or agree with it. And stupid is when somebody tells the truth and you don't want to believe it.

The consensus BOD got HMGS EAST into a mess, and its successro the CYABOD spent the better part of three years trying to cast the blame on their predecessors.

I thought that was petty and vindictive, and I know it was dishonest. Even my old Friend Bill Gray, in the June 1998 newsletter reporting on the membership meeting the previous HISTORICONgave me credit for pointing out that the dues were inadequate and could be raised to advantage. I made no such suggestion. In fact, in my first message (1993) as President I had pointed out that our dues were merely a token of the member's interest in the goals of the corpration and were not a significant source of revenue.

Admittedly I'm getting on in years, but I'm morally certain that the approximate money on hand, based on HMGS EAST fiscal data provided by Dick Sossi in April of 1997 were approximately $60,000 at the time I left office(July 1995), and around $31,000 for April 1997. I made extensive use of the data to estimate convention attendance for those conventions which, contrary to BOD mandate, did not submit activity financial reports.

Toby's statement that the funds didn't drop to $31,000 should not be taken as a statement of fact, only as a statement that he didn't like what I was saying.

Two months later, when significant income (pre-registrations and dealer deposits) had been received for HISTORICON 97 the money on hand was reported in the June newsletter as $56,000. Relatively few expenses would have b een incurred against HISTORICON at that time (PEL would be one I suspect) and the pre-registration and dealer deposits for COLDWARS 98 were $6,881 and $20,076 respectively.

I haven't been able to locate the official report for HISTORICON 97, but I've got it around here somewhere. And if I ever locate the elusive 5.25 Quicken disk I'll try to get it to one of you with a genuine antique computer in your garage.

As for this whole thing being stupid, I am well aware that many in the historical gaming history secretly believe history is bunk, and are bored and offended when history, particularly of HMGS, is discussed.

I touched on that history in the old thread to illustrate what I saw as a bad cyclic pattern in HMGS EAST financial management. I don't think I mentioned Toby Barrett by name. But because his role in the first iteration was somewhat inglorious (after the initial investigation of mideeds of the CONSENSUS BOD) the came on line and said I was lying.

Somehow I was dawghoused for citing historical patterns in connection with what I saw as the BOD's current action. Off topic or a post to many. Toby was not because his was merely a vicious and dishonest personal attack with no reference to the topic at all. I was told I could have protested. But unfortunately that isn't my way of conducting a discussion.

When I got back on and moved this thread out of the HISTORICON move thread I gave fair warning that it would be about HMGS history and might not be of interest to many.

If, having been told you might not like it, you insisted on reading it, well, who was it that said "Stupid is as stupid does"?

But you guys can carry on without my assistance in this matter. I'll see if I can find the missing reports. Time I stopped stalling and got to work on Volume II "THE GOLDEN AGE" (basically from the move to Harrisburg to the collapse of the NBOD.)

I have an abuccus (sp?) in my basement!

Yeah, but does it read floppy disks?

I'm pretty sure I have it written down on a piece of paper somewhere.

Yeah, but is it still readable?

What is true is that HMGS East politics has been dissappointing to me, with several iterations of elections focused on personal issues drawn from the style of US politics. That kind of behavior can leave deep wounds even after the rest of the world has moved on. Pat was poorly treated/ill rewarded for his service when there was no particular point in it.
This has drawn into years of refighting old battles that are of less interest for the less directly engaged. I wish this issue would just go away. The current HMGS BOD has issues but they are different from what went on in the 90's
FWIW Pat also used to have one of the few ranges of 15mm figs for WSS and a nice range of SCW minis. These were nice fillers for neglected periods before the current golden age of minis for pretty much any period/scale.
Pat if you felt insulted, then hit the complaint button

Condray brought up the $31k low funds issue before on TMP months ago and I corrected him then. These were probably the everyday operation funds in one account which could (and did) vary largely during pre/post convention operation and DID NOT include the several certificate of deposits the organization possessed. No other individual or Board member at the time has ever come on TMP to counter my reply then or even now. HMGS East overall funds never dipped to the level Condray would have you believe. But that didn't set well with Condray. It doesn't fit his interpretation of the event.
So what does he do? He slinks off like some snake in the grass only to spit his venom on another posting months later, and I come back on to defend myself – again – and call a lie for what it is. (He does the same thing to others like David Bonk (db)and, to his credit, David comes on to defend himself as well.) The latest Condray attack came within a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the original topic of that thread and was rather an informal poll about attendees going to the Historicon 2010 convention, or not.
The Editor sees thru Condray's many smokescreens easily enough, and sees individual defensive replies for what they are. He openly warned Condray and others in that thread to stop their behavior and stick to the thread subject. When they didn't they apparently were tossed off, blocked otherwise, or perhaps even dog housed.
"Pat was poorly treated/ill rewarded for his service when there was no particular point in it." Don't know who the last poster of that line is, but I assure him, or her, that whatever poor or iltreatment Condray has ever received was brought on by himself because of his malicious tactics and insults to countless folks involved with helping to run HMGS east since 1995 when he was voted out by the membership. It has been only bitter retribution since, and he has too many hostilities remain within him for a well-adjusted man.
I'm sorry, once again, to disgust readers, or worse bore them to tears with all this, but I shall continue to come on and defend myself whenever Condray makes his attacks.

Toby, you and the CONSENSUS and COVER YOUR (Posterior)BOD Had a great opportunity to set the record straight. There were repeated promises to provide the membership with a compplete report. But you never delivered. The facts available didn't square with your position.

Fact: You and the boys (and your successors after you quit in a huff) promised a report.

Fact: None of you ever delivered.

Much later a BOD member with legal training said it was just as well that the report never saw the light of day. He saw what was in the files, and it was embarassing nonsense.

There is no reason why any other BOD member at the time should come on line to rebut your fantasy since the CONSENSUS BOD never paid much attention to the finances until after CW97. After that they focussed on blaming their predecessors.

As for the different accounts, etc. I was looking at the totals after HISTORICON 95. The total was a bit over $60,000. That would have reflected net revenue from COLDWARS 95 and HISTORICON 95. Best I could tell from the H94 report and the Quicken data, H94 cleared only $2,651. It was also a slow year for COLDWARS 95, with $8,874 net. That was very low for COLDWARS, but normal for HISTORICON because of the afore mentioned AC. With increased staff costs but no AC H95 picked up only $433, COLDWARS 96 generated $11,984, which was hardly a record. But HISTORICON 96 lost $1,800, and CW97 lost $4,888.78 (after Toby's careful research.)

At the same time, the scholarship program was designed to spend up to 4 x $1,500 on as many students. And as was revealed at the H97 Membership Meeting, each of our members cost us $7.50 USD in cash over and above memberships. The MILITARY FORUM (which I would like to see brought back) was expanded to both conventions and generated about $1,000 annual loss.

In May of 1996 net worth had climbed to $68,000 which would reflect dealer revenue and pre-registration for HISTORICON 96 but little or no expenditure for that convention.

After the consecutive losses of H96 ($1,800)and CW97 ($4,488) The figure for April 97 was (best I can recall) $31,000 or so. With vendor revenue (approximately $20,000) and pre-registrants (approximately $7,000) for HISTORICON, and little if any expense from that convention, the reported amount was $56,416 in May 97.

May and June would normally show the net from COLDWARS (which from 1992-1996 was the big money maker) and much income but little outgo for HISTORICON.

As noted, the funds on hand for the peak period were $68,000 in 1996, and $56,000 in 1997.

Not to repeat myself. But if you subtract HISTORICON dealer and pre-registration from the May 96 figure, I think on the face of it $31,000 is a reasonable if high figure even though I can't find the elusive disk.

Toby's assertion that it couldn't possibly have gone that low seems to be based not on an analysis of any actual data, but on outrage and arrogance, for which he is justly renowned.

As for Bill seeing through my smoke screen, I have no complaint, though I don't exactly understand it. My comment to which Toby responded in righteous dishonesty did not mention names, and was intiaally quite well received. It did address what I saw as a cyclic pattern which was also reflected in the current deficit budget for 2009 and high risk venture in 2010.

Bill did tell me I could have protested Toby's post. But that hardly seemed sporting.

Condray: "(and your successors after you quit in a huff)"

There's another lie. I never quit. I finished my regular full term that ended at Historicon 1998 and did not run again. I thank Condray for continuing to make mis-statements that show him to be the bully that he truly is.
I understand Condray was also kicked off the HMGS East financial oversight committee recently for the same tactics – so there is some good news this week.

Toby

Matter of interpretation. You declined to run again. And later after the Hadley coup you were all set to run again supported by the Gang of Six. But when James Thomas blocked the effort to remove Bob Giglio you and, I think, Bill Frye, who was also on the Gang of Six's list of candidates refused to run. But I think that was in 2001 after the Gigliophobes lost the election.

As often happens when issues of fact come up, I've been pouring through old HMGS EAST financial documents to get at the facts, which can be pretty illusive. Toby doesn't have that problem. He simply gives out the story he wants people to believe and rants about it.

As noted above, the state of the treasury in May of 96 was $68,000 at a point in the business cycle in which much of the revenue, but few of the expenses of HISTORICON would have come in. The same figure for May of 97 was $56,000.

Pre-registration and vendor payments for HISTORICON would normally amount to more than $24,000, and in those days we didn't have quite the promotional effort (full color brochure blizzard etc.) that we do now, which events out the pre-convention expense to income ratio.

The official report of CW98 (which cleared $17534.09)* shows dealer tables brought in at least $17,871, and pre-registration from attenders came to $6,881. which comes to $24,752. So if the amounts for HISTORICON 97 had been no more than for COLDWARS 98, and would primarily have come in during the interval between April and June, the figure of $31,000 for April 97 seems quite believable.

On the other hand, Toby has given no rationale for his statement that it "never got down to $31,000."

How low did it get Toby?

Pat

No PC you're not listening. It was TB's dog that wanted to run for the Board in 2001 but that dastardly David Bonk (db) beat him. The CYA Board in a bumbling effort to cover it up created a Consensus of the Gang of Seven (now minus the dog thus making it the Gang of Six). Combined the new Board created a new group named the Asleep at the Wheel Band. They made one big hit in 1997 'Cold Wars Warrior'. The proceeds from this mega hit saved HMGS as the treasury got down to as low as a dollar three eighty. TB had his dog cover this up by eating the disc with all the financial data, which included the proof that there was a Kennedy assassination plot. The Flagon with the Dragon has the pellet with the poison. Drink on.

BuddyBoy's summary goes far toward an explanation of some of Condray's hoaxes and machinations, but I'm sorry to say I don't have a dog.

How like Toby to endorse a position that he likes even though it happens to be false.

The Witch Finder General (ret.) threw in another goodie recently:

" understand Condray was also kicked off the HMGS East financial oversight committee recently for the same tactics – so there is some good news this week."

Not having the inside sources of the Witch Finder General (ret.) I was a bit puzzled. I inquired of the President of HMGS EAST. He reminded me of the following:

1. I had not been on the Financial Oversight Committee since last March. As originally established the FOC not only reviewed budget documents and made recommendations to the BOD, but was supposed to help count the money at the end of each convention. Since I have to pack out for EB and HPC during the same hours for the long drive back to Florida, I had to decline, as did, I think, one of the other two "civilian" (not BOD, not Convention management) members.

2. At that point the functions were split out. What I was (and so far as I know still am) on is called the Budget Review Committee, which reviews and comments on budgets and fiscal reports. It is a little bit vague as to whom and how the comments are to be made.

Certainly I would not be surprised if I were fired from the BRC. While I voted for most of the current directors, I am often no more reverent of their egos than I am of Toby's. Fortunately I have a pretty good pension and don't depend on my salary from the BRC for a living. I would be somewhat more deferential if I needed the salary, or if they had a gun to my head. But not all that much.

At the moment I don't seem to have been fired, and I am eagerly looking forward to my next paycheck (which would be the first.)

Meanwhile, if and when I get my pink slip, I'll let you know. I'm sure it will make Toby's day.

Pat Condray (WKPP)

Ya know, if half the energy was spent painting toys, that has been spent urinating and whining over he said, she said, or alternative lifestyle said, there would never be enough space in all the gaming conventions, in the world to run the games that could be produced.
Pat and Toby, I think the world of both of you, but gee whiz, where is it gonna end. It is almost like you each have a specimen bottle full of bodily fluids, waiting to read the others obituary, so you can bury said bottle on the grave.
Seems the efforts could have been put to better use.
In addition, although I agree that Pat is caustic at best, in most of his posts, I have not caught him in a lie.
chuck

So Chuck At your "word" everyone that reads the posts above sould assume that everything out of Condrays mouth is the gossip and everyone else is lying??? This from a man that has thrown every "friend" he had for the past 30 under the bus because he wanted to be King! stick to your underhanded back door dealing its the only thing you are good at

Hope not To CeYa Dale

Dale,
Not sure what you're talking about.
Let's fix something first.
Instead of gossip, I think you mean gospel, as in from God's mouth.
Second, I wonder if you are referring to the friends, including yourself, who accused me of various and sundry offenses, in fact almost everything except being the gunman on the Grassy Knoll.
As far as being King, I never wanted that at all. Just wanted to see the program grow.
I've kept my mouth shut, sat back and watched. Done nothing to interfere. Seen how you performed, same as the old days.
Saw a program that was growing drop to half its size. I am presently watching the local leadership work to overcome the mess left by you and a few others.
Anyone can come up with a litany of accusations as you and others did. Funny though, when I simply asked for proof, if such could be presented, in order to make right, none apparently could be found. BTW Dale, still waiting.
Pat has been accused of lying. I simply said I had never known him to a lie.

I see that you are just as unable to tell the truth. I guess you do not remember I have not served on the BOD since 2000. I was ask to coordinate Recon 08 until a replacement could be found and Katie is doing a wonderful job. The real problem here is that the people that really know you, know your true colors. And like I tolled you at the last convention when you came to me to try and mend the fences that ship has sailed. The only person you are fooling with your "Humble" postings is your self. Sit back a think about who and what you have thrown away. When is the last time you were welcome at any of you Old friends (And must of us have known you for 30 yrs or more) homes for just one of our games or dinner, something that the rest of us still enjoy on a weekly basis. Hope it was all worth it

Dale