"Understanding French Revolution Flags?" Topic

Trying to understand French Flags used during the Revolution, specifically starting in 1796 in Italy and Germany through Rivoli (January 1797).

First, Army of Italy flags appear not distributed by Napoleon until July 1797, so those are to be ignored.

The January 1797 amalgamation order had battalions assigned to new Demi-Brigades by lots. "On 19 March, Schere ruled that only the half-brigade which formed the cadre would keep its flags)". I am looking primarily at the new Letrun book from H&C.

So it seems to say that the NEW DB would carry the flag of the OLD cadre??? Letrun notes the "cadre" with a * symbol.

So let me give an example, and see if I am reading this correct –

75th Demi-Brigade during Italian campaign of 1796-97.
"75th Line 1796 (70th Battle*, 117th and 152nd Battle, Gren Co of the 26th Line) no doubt carried the flags of the 70th Battle in March 1796, received at Padua three Army of Italy pattern…"

Thus the 75th Demi-Brigade would carry the flags of the "70th DB"??? The 1st and 3rd Bn would be similar, the 2nd Bn different and like all other 2nd Bns flags, but with "70th" on it???

Or am I making it more confusing than it really is – is it all just simply that the 75th DB would have "75th" on all its flags during this period?

Another example –
85th Line 1796 (56th Battle*, 104th and 113th Battle, 1st and 2nd 209th Battle, 1st Mayenne-et-Loire, 8th Saone-et-Loire) carried the flag of the 56th Battle, received at Vicence three Army of Italy pattern…"

So what does 85th DB carry in 1796-7 prior to the new Army of Italy flags? Flags noted as belonging to the 56th DB?

Seems that you are correct with your assumption that 75e db would carry the three 70 db colours.

The pattern of the 2nd battalion would be different to the 1st and 3rd ones, but still carry 70 on it, in case one can be sure that 70 db formed the cadre (whatever that means.

85e db would carry 56 de bataille which still is using the old name demi brigade de bataille instead of demi brigade de ligne, really easy ;-))

Boy, is that crazy or what? At least the new H&C book lays it out fairly well. Be interesting during a Con game – "your 75th Regt is shaken", "which one is that?", "the one with 70th on its flag", "What about the one with 75th on its flag?", "oh, it's OK, that the 59th…"

I would have to pick the one OOB right in the middle of the mess.

For Light Infanty DBs, Letrun also shows only Chasseurs flags, then a few changes to Egyptian version, then 1802 version. So was the "Chasseurs" flag still used by all Legere Bns in 1796?

My best understanding (from Charrie) is that there was no flag issued to light infantry after the first amalgam. Therefore, the only issued flags the legere would have are the remaining chasseur flags and those of whatever volunteer battalions the demi-brigades were formed from. (Good luck there.) Army of Italy and Orient patterns were (I think) given to legere DBs.
Phil

I think that is correct about Army of Italy, and those are in the H&C book. However, they were distributed after my OOB, so looks like they had the old Chasseur flags is all.

Still bizzare that the 75th DB had flags with "70th" on them, not 75th, and the 14th Light would be carrying the 1st Chasseur flags.

These things happen when you amalgamate units, think also about the buttons, none in the 75e demi brigade would carry a button with the correct number imprinted on them.

I wonder however if not units changed later their pattersn into the correct numbers – or just switched the numbers, otherwise up to the introduction of the Eagles they would have carreid those colours – unless being a demi brigade which was issued d'Italie colours.

It is not outside the realm of possibility that the "new" DBs simply painted the correct unit number on the old colour.

Possible is of course everything, so you would have a 70 db design with a 75 on it – or got new colours made, whenever the unit had enough money – but this would be outside the regulations.

Still there exist colour patterns outside of those specified – those could be later makes – but again – this is pure speculation.

One is more lucky with those who got the d'Italie pattern, but then also there existed two versions.

Well I'm trying with the 18 demi-brigade in July 1796 so all I can say is ahhhhhhh!

18th DB carried 3 flags of 69th Batille starting June 1796.

Thanks for that Duke. It is certainly a complicated and confusing subject.