"FOW basic cost of stuff??" Topic

hiya just getting in to FOW using the list form the books but i have a lot based on rapid fire organisation, so is there a basic price list of the vehicles, Tanks, infantry guns etc so I can still use my existing forces??

Not sure what you mean; all the points costs are in the army lists. There's no such things a a 'basic cost' of an individiaul tank or infantry team, as everything's bought by the platoon.

As Andrew says there is no basic cost. The cost is based on a unit, and is dependent on what company (or battalion, if you're fielding russians) you are building.

There are some examples of what it looks like here
link
(for mid war), or here
link
(for late war)

(Notice that how they are structured have changed a little, the later lists (the late war ones) are easier to use.)

Although it should be noted that these examples are rather odd formations – so odd that they were not included in the basic books.

Fl;ames of War is a lot like Warhammer in that you are given no "first principles" from which to construct a points cost.
They give you the costs in the army list books.
This is unlike most Ancients rules where you are given a set of points that you can add to get the basic figure cost.

To me, this is annoying. To others not so much.
It would be nice to go to a "tank template" and add armor, gun, special abilities (positive and negative), morale and training, etc. and get a cost. However, it seems that after they calculate this on the Secret Algorithometer, they throw in a "this sounds right" fudge factor.

Should we continue with discussing proper points calculations, or simply veer off into the points are meaningless discussion?

- Bob

I think TMP is equipped to handle both.
However, let me go on record calling any "points are meaningless" hijackers whining crybabies, who are ed that all the Cool Kids are playing FoW, and not their own favorite game.

The original Flames of War lists did not provide points costs for the subunits, only for individual weapons systems, and left it to the player to multiply "x" points per tank times the number of tanks to determine the cost of a tank platoon.

The history of FoW seems to have a number of epiphanies of, "OK, so *that's* too hard for our target audience to do…"

Meaningless discussion is the essence of TMP.

Allen

"left it to the player to multiply"

So would dividing work now, or have they been more devious than that?

Oh, and my favorite system has individual vehicle points, so everyone should use it. Even though points are just a crutch.

"So would dividing work now, or have they been more devious than that?"

Not so well. As John alludes, some "fudge factors" for quality are now built in. That was not calculated in the original points system.

Free yourselves from arbitrary points systems!

Allen

You might be able to work out the costs of some things. Foer example, British mid-war tank squadrons in Afrika have between 3 and 5 tanks. Costs are given for adding one or two tanks to the basic unit, so there's an individual cost. However, some formations don't have the option of adding units like that.

The history of FoW seems to have a number of epiphanies of, "OK, so *that's* too hard for our target audience to do…"

Or have simply realised, rightly, that if you can only ever field the things in a group of three, why bother giving the cost of one?

Also, comparing the cost of three tanks in a squadron to the cost to add one extra, the basic three cost more than 3x as much as one extra. There's a 'platoon command' surcharge.

You sell a lot more army books with randomnly fudged unit costs which change with time, theatre and even unit.

Simple division won't work for the Soviet stuff. There's a "Quality of Quantity" scale at work that makes their gear progressively cheaper as you add more.

Andrew Paul wrote:

[…] Or have simply realised, rightly, that if you can only ever field the things in a group of three, why bother giving the cost of one?

Depending on how you intend to play the game, this is probably the key factor. There are only certain combinations that are legal (and dare I say it, "historical"). I have known guys that would gleefully throw together one of everything, or mish-mash insane combinations of equipment into their "platoons" without these constraints.

Lest we forget, the Official FoW rules do include THREE ways the forces used in the game can be built, of which points is only one (though definitely the one most commonly used.) The game plays just fine using any of these approaches. You and your opponent(s) just have to agree on which to use.

If you're not building to the official lists, rather than try to approximate the points system without the benefit all the associated playtesting, just chuck it and go with scenarios that suit you. Use historical OOB, pre-written scenarios (adapted from Rapid Fire to FoW perhaps?) or your favorite bits from movies. The points approach is really only essential if you're going to be doing tourney or competitive gaming.

- Bob

Pointz is WAY KOOL! Specally in FoW!!

(good enough, John?)

Give up RF for FOW? Pointless!