"A good book?" Topic

Any good book (a must have) book about napoleon and his war which has all?
A good all-in-one book to begin with?

Osprey's 'Armies of the Napoleonic Wars' is a good book for a potted history and a look at most of the protagonists.

Chandler's 'Campaigns of Napoleon' is a definate must have for the different campaigns.

Once more:

The Campaigns of Napoleon, David Chandler, MacMillian Pub. Co. 1966, ISBN 0-02-523660-1

probably the best all in "pot boiler" for any budding
enthusiast

If it has to be only one book then here is another vote for Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon.

It can be two books if you want. But I want to begin with one and then continue with others and take a deep reading about Napoleon.

Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon.

Chandler with out a doubt.

Ok. I will buy Chandler.

Excellent choice

Nordic,

If you cash will stretch, I'd recommend "The War of Wars: The Epic Struggle Between Britain and France: 1789-1815" by Robert Harvey as well. It's a book that looks at the period as a whole from the French Revolution to the aftermath of Waterloo. I found the author was not afraid to show the good and bad on all sides. Also it touched on politics, navel warfare, spying, a little of everything. I now know a few things I want to know more about.

Now after all the resposes above I will put Chandler on my list as well.

I would respectfully submit that A Military History and Atlas of the Napoleonic Wars is superior to Chandler. The authros are Brigadier General Vincent J. Esposito and Colonel John R. Elting.

Sincerely,
K

GR C17
the Wars of wars is a good suggestion as its in paperback
about 1000 pages long and lasted me a week on holiday
and if lost its only a second division napoleonic book
of mine. i mean that in cost terms as its a cracking read
broken down into easy to read segments.

for uniforms you may want to get the old Funken books the
Napoleonic Wars 1 and 2

for more accuracy Eltings Napoleonic uniforms 1 to 4 volumes
in case you wanted 4 books!!!!!!!! lol

regards
Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

Nordic,

I strongly second the "Military History and Atlas of the Napoleonic Wars" by Esposito and Elting as THE must-have book on this era.

MJ

But this book is very difficult to find…

Again, Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon.

Find it! Most good military book dealers have it or can get it. The "Military History and Atlas" is simply SO must-have.

Nordic,

I endorse Chandler's "The Campaigns of Napoleon" I remember buying it as a 13 year old……..cost at that time an astonishing $17.95. After reading it I was hooked. I began to acquire all things Napoleonic and before I knew it my library, print collection grew at an amazing pace. Turned out, "Campaigns" was the most expensive book I ever bought.

Russ

Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon, a must-have book!!!!! <;^}

Written by a professional academic military historian – A gentleman and scholar!

Don't leave home without it. An added plus – you won't bang into it every time you go past you book shelve – the 'atlas' sticks way out. It 'grabs' at you every time you pass by. When you look at price – campaigns is much much more economical.

Chandler again. The Atlas is well worth having, but given a choice Chandler is the one hands down. This book got me into wargaming 40 years ago; I took it out of the public library too many times to count and have read it cover to cover at least a dozen times… I finally bought my own copy in my early 20's. I have many books on the era, but if I could have only one, Chandler would be it!

Another for Chandler. Bought his book years ago, misplaced it in the shed, so I bought another. have read it over and over.
The Funcken uniform books are also great. I got both volumes from right here on TMP.

As a young boy, I read Chandler and found it completely enjoyable, and read it right after I finished David Howarth's Waterloo book.

Even then I wondered why Chandler's book was so unbalanced in terms of pages devoted to certain events. It seemed that, looking at the cool charts in the back, that short shrift had been given to the massive battles of 1813, while the book was heavier in 1796-97 and 1815. It felt as if Chandler rushed it at the end, and glossed over events. Perhaps his editors took a hack into its length. I should look at the book and see if my impression was accurate.

Later, when I got a copy of Elting's and Esposito's Atlas, I felt it was more chronologically balanced. Not quite the page turner, but I am a sucker for maps.

Now, of the three, Swords Around a Throne is clearly the best written and researched. Furthermore, rather than sweeping generalization and reliance on secondary research, Elting's Swords teaches about what went on in some detail on the Napoleonic battlefield. Of course, Chandler has some great lines, like his closing one regarding the "failure of a giant among pygmies."

I don't think you can go wrong with either of these three books. They compliment each other rather than clash.

Any critique of Chandler is sort of like attacking Santa Claus; so many of us got the book when we were young, and have very fond memories of it that border on the Proustian.
I can still remember the wrapping under the Christmas tree (an indelibe thing really, and in publishing I hope to produce the same kind of feeling of excitement ince again.)

Unfortunately, there is some issue of national pride that attends any discussion of Elting versus Chandler, and this thread may quickly degnerate.

But I have to give my honest answer. John Elting, a man who loved the army and Napoleon as well, developed an ineffable sense of the spirit of Napoleon's army, and the powerful effect that Napoleon had
on his men.

Like Rick Atkinson's Army at Dawn, it's something of a miracle in the way these lost armies are brought back to life. Chandler too succeeds as a generalist; he can turn a phrase.

If your completely new to Napoleonics, Chandler; he'll create the hunger. Then Elting for something more filling.

I will follow your advices!

thanks for your time!

Get both. I read whatever book I am reading with the Atlas open so I can follow the maps.

David
wardepot.blogspot.com
6to20painting.blogspot.com

"Now, of the three, Swords Around a Throne is clearly the best written and researched."

Not sure how this became three. As its title announces, "Swords Around a Throne" focuses exclusively on the French Napoleonic army as an institution, and so cannot possibly replace Chandler or "The Atlas" as a campaign history. As a compendium of lore, it displays comprehensiveness more than research and the Colonel's military bonhomie is not for everyone.

I suspect for a newcomer it can be a magical introduction, like touring Les Invalides with a very knowledgable and entertaining guide. Unfortunately, I had made a number of metaphorical visits by the time I read the book. A lot of the anecdotes were familiar and some no longer rang true and others I really wanted explored more deeply. And the guide's schtick could get a bit thick. I read it cover to cover – it is eminently readable – and thought, "meh."

Just to make sure I remembered correctly, I pulled it off my shelf and flipped to a chapter in the middle – "Trumpets and Drums and Cuckoos" – and reread it. Possibly not the strongest chapter. Anyway, it's amazing how Elting can hold forth for 18 pages just with narration, terminology, decrees, and anecdote. I have no issue with sourcing. It is clear when the author is generalizing, and there is a chapter by chapter bibliography. But much is not footnoted, what is often does not offer a reference, and frequently the references are recent works. So it's hard to trace much of the material down to their origins. How exactly did Mortier's drums get shot up without losing his drummers as well?-) And the Russians get characterized both as drunks and thieves in the same chapter;-)

It is certainly useful to come up to speed on the color of the era, well at least the French part, but then it's time for something deeper.

Like Chandler.

Or Connelly.

Nev, welcome back. Did someone clean up the kennel? It was a frightful mess when I was last there. <;^}

For a general introduction I would go for Chandler and alongside the Atlas of the Napoleonic Wars.

Bear in mind, such works are introductions – in case you delve deaper into the subject you will be disappointed to find out that Chandler or Elting (in Swords) failed miserably in some subjects.

Von Winterfeldt

In your opinion what are the subjects that you consider both authors failed with.

Wagram

Kevin,

Do you have a copy of the New Yorker article that discusses Colonel Elting's work?

Does anybody know who nvrsynvr is? I have a hard time taking the postings of anonymous snipers with any seriousness.

Steven seems to know him as Nev he must have posted on the forum in the past. It is up to him if he does not want to reveal his real name and he shouldn't be made to in my humble opinion.

Wagram

"Does anybody know who nvrsynvr is?" I do. Do you have some silver to hand out for his identity? Enough said.

You may be surprised to learn that this forum, TMP, has by tradition been anonymous. Some people, very much in the minority, have chosen not to be. It is a bit rich of you to complain of this forum's traditions.

You appear to find negative comments 'sniping'. Are positive comments by the anonymous also 'sniping'?

How many more books do you need to sell?

Big Al

Ok. Who has the Atlas of the Napoleonic Wars and the Chadler´s book to sell it to me? price?

Try Abe Books – you can get BOTH together for under $100!

Big Al

Matt,

No, I don't. I wish I did, though.

Sincerely,
K

"I have a hard time taking the postings of anonymous snipers with any seriousness."

Suit yourself.

Seems to me this echos a certain contingent on these boards. It doesn't matter what is said, it only matters who said it…

Anyway, my post is for Uppsala Juan. I wouldn't want him eagerly purchasing Swords and discovering it's not about the campaigns nor a universal taste. On the other hand, it can be had for less than $20 USD used, and it's certainly a solid recommendation for a newcomer.

That, for some silly reason, my opinion ticks you off is just icing on the cake…

You go, Nev! <;^}

No, doesn't tick me off. You have some interesting insights
amongst the bile. But I have no idea where your hostility is coming from and don't care to speculate.

I mean, that nvrsynvr and Steven H Smith know each other is not a surprise. What are you represnting? Why? What do you stand for?

I have no idea why anonymous posters are tolerated except in special cases where it would be necessary to protect a public figure. It seems simple that we whould call the practice out, and make it stop, in order to further communication. Being anonymous undermines everything that poster says.

Sniping, cheap shots, disrespectful sarcasm, aspersions, personal attacks, all hidden behind anonymity, suggests . I think your partisan efforts to disagree with certain individuals would be much more effective with your real name. Furthermore, the negativity it creates, where positive contributors simply stop posting for fear of the snipers, is a result that diminishes the whole community. Is this your intent?

Intellectual honesty is difficult. It starts by signing your name. Then you have to be able to say you're sorry once in awhile, and even, gasp, admit when in the heat of
a "battle" that you may have gone overboard.

I realize, and make no secret of, having a vested interest in this hobby. But I am a hobbyist, and a publisher, and a game designer.

"I mean, that nvrsynvr and Steven H Smith know each other is not a surprise."

I don't know about Steve, but I'm certainly flattered…

MattDLM, if that is your real name, I know you and we have corresponded in the past – YOU must be part of the, ahem, conspiracy! LOL

Bile, tolerated, Sniping, cheap shots, disrespectful sarcasm, aspersions, personal attacks, "suggests ", "partisan efforts", negativity, "fear of the snipers", "Intellectual honesty". Yep, he be a demagogue. Say you're sorry; admit you may have gone overboard. LOL

Oh, yes, Nev is a Gentleman and Scholar. He can therefore do no wrong. Q.E.D. <;^}

Big Al

Well, I do believe in acknowledging when I am wrong, and I happened to come across a posting from 3 years ago where Matt was obsessing about amateur and professional historians, so it's a real concern of his and not simply a convenient distraction…

I have no idea why anonymous posters are tolerated…

We have discussed this topic before, and have even put it to a vote of the TMP community. Things are the way they are now because that's what this community desires.

If you wish to persuade them otherwise, feel free to try…

Thanks Bill! <;^}

I have no idea why anonymous posters are tolerated except in special cases where it would be necessary to protect a public figure. It seems simple that we whould call the practice out, and make it stop, in order to further communication. Being anonymous undermines everything that poster says.

We have discussed this topic before, and have even put it to a vote of the TMP community. Things are the way they are now because that's what this community desires.

If you wish to persuade them otherwise, feel free to try…

OT, but it's because it's totally undoable. How the heck can you check? What follows is all about me, be it could apply to anyone.

I'm logged in at work, ping this address and you'll get the company name not mine. At home I can log in using my wife's BB line (we have one each, flash eh?). I can assure you that the last time I checked I wasn't called Sandra.

So, you're down to relying on people doing it because they're asked to nicely. My first name really is Jeff, as my profile states, but I'm damned if I'm using my real last name for everyone and anyone who happens along to see.

And, you still wouldn't know me from Adam, so what would it achieve? You could Google me, but unless you're really bothered about electrical engineering it would hardly be worth the effort. Which opens another can of worms – armed with my real name and the company I work for, just think of the mischief you could potentially cause if I ed you off*

Anyway, I can stand people saying that Connard Sage is a stupid , it gets personal when someone says it of Jeff X :)

*a good reason not to have a social networking account. I visit Facebook occasionally, just to check up on colleagues. You'd be surprised…

So,if you hold an opinion,you must have an agenda? The mentality of some posters beggars belief.

Wow, I wonder what Matt's (or whoever he is--hiding behind a fictitious name and all that ) definition of "sniping" etc. is? Wow. I don't see any in this thread at all.

John

In fairness to Matt, who's been called away, he's reacting to the post I dropped in the amateur/academic/professional thread suggesting he had an agenda. As I noted above, he appears to be sincere about that particular issue. He has also made an investment in the hobby, which I respect and support. I just wish he would stop trying to redefine every criticism of his allies as a personal attack.

Fair enough, Nev.

Steve

"Wow, I wonder what Matt's (or whoever he is--hiding behind a fictitious name and all that ) definition of "sniping" etc. is? Wow. I don't see any in this thread at all."

I don't see any either! I was surprised at Matt's reaction to what seemed a reasonable critique of one of the books suggested in this thread. Seems to me like Matt got up on the wrong side of the gaming bed or something.

<Visiting the topic by way of persuing the dawghouse>

Intellectual honesty is difficult. It starts by signing your name.

That's not true anymore. This is the internet. While people regularly posted with real names in the early 90s, things have gotten much nastier nowadays. People you don't know can find out a lot about you by googling your name. Employers do it all the time and I've actually done it myself once or twice when I've had doubts or questions about job applicants I've interviewed. Depending on what forums you enjoy posting on and wha sort of posts you make, there can be a lot revealed about you. And the identity thieves can certainly learn, if not vital information, supplementary information to bolster their information.

The best insurance against this is a pseudonym. It's what most ISPs, if asked, will recommend. One would be crazy today to start broadcasting exactly who you are.

Anyone can parade as anyone. You may not like that – I know I really don't – but you simply can't demand people reveal their real identity anymore. Mind you, some s take advantage of that and use it to be particularly nasty, but a lot don't.

All the best,
--
Tim

Well well. this post was intended to find information about good books about Napoleon, not for discuss things about internet and nicks. Please, open a new post if you want to continue with the conversation, not here.

I will accept all opinions about books and it doesnt matter if the come from Professionals or amateurs. If you have a suggestion, write here.

Thanks for your help.