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"Sino-Japanese War: Chinese TO&E" Topic


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11 Aug 2009 1:28 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Sino-Japnese War: Chinese TO&E" to "Sino-Japanese War: Chinese TO&E"

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Comments or corrections?

Ryan T11 Aug 2009 11:56 a.m. PST

I'm looking for information on the organization of the Chinese forces during the Sino-Japanese War. Hsu Long-hsuen and Chang Ming-kai's History of the Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) states that more than 10 divisions (presumably those trained by the Germans) were organized with 4 regiments in 2 brigades. Equipment is described as 54 HMGs, 16 howitzers, 30 regimental or battalion guns, and 16 mortars.

Unfortunately, no additional details are provided. Can anyone suggest a source that might have more information?

As a follow-up, I have read that the two Osprey books on the Chinese during this period are well worth the money. Does either of them address the question of divisional orgaization or equipment? I am especially interested in the 1937 fighting around Shanghai. Does either book look at this subject in any depth?

Skeets Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2009 12:02 p.m. PST

I believe that Nafziger has a book or two on the Chinese/Japanese war. You can link through the Manufacturers Index here.

AzSteven11 Aug 2009 12:52 p.m. PST

Both of the Ospreys have good coverage of individual arms and equipment, and some discussion of support weapons and vehicles, but I don't recall a lot of discussion of divisional-level organization or equipment.

Rudysnelson11 Aug 2009 1:04 p.m. PST

It takes a lot of searching but I have found several websites on that era. Chinese for the Chinese in 1880 and 1890 reforms can be found. I will see what I have in the notes of my article on the war and the slightly earlier war with the French.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2009 5:43 a.m. PST

The Ospreys are as no†ed a little light on organization of higher level formations

Here are a few notes on the Nationalist Army (called the National Revolutionary Army) from

link

The NRA throughout its lifespan recruited approximately 4,300,000 regulars, in 370 Standard Divisions (正式師), 46 New Divisions (新編師), 12 Cavalry Divisions (騎兵師), eight New Cavalry Divisions (新編騎兵師), 66 Temporary Divisions (暫編師), and 13 Reserve Divisions (預備師), for a grand total of 515 divisions. However, many divisions were formed from two or more other divisions, and were not active at the same time. Also, New Divisions were created to replace Standard Divisions lost early in the war and were issued the old division's number. Therefore the number of divisions in active service at any given time is much smaller than this. The average NRA division had 5,000-6,000 troops; an average army had 10,000-15,000 troops, the equivalent of a Japanese division. The German-trained divisions were not even on par in terms of manpower with a western or Japanese division, having only 10,000 troops.

The NRA only had small number of armoured vehicles and mechanised troops. At the beginning of the war in 1937 the armour were organized in three Armoured Battalions, equipped with tanks and armoured cars from various countries. After these battalions were mostly destroyed in the Battle of Shanghai and Battle of Nanjing new tanks, armoured cars and trucks from the Soviet Union and Italy made it possible to create the only mechanized division in the army, the 200th Division. This Division eventually ceased to be a mechanized unit after the June 1938 reorganization of Divisions. The armoured and artillery Regiments were placed under direct command of 5th Corps and the 200th Division became a motorized Infantry Division within the same Corps. This Corps fought battles in Guangxi in 1939-1940 and in Burma in 1942 reducing the armored units due to losses and mechanical breakdown of the vehicles. On paper China had 3.8 million men under arms in 1941. They were organized into 246 "front-line" divisions, with another 70 divisions assigned to rear areas. Perhaps as many as forty Chinese divisions had been equipped with European-manufactured weapons and trained by foreign, particularly German and Soviet, advisers. The rest of the units were under strength and generally untrained. Overall, the Nationalist Army impressed most Western military observers as more reminiscent of a nineteenth- than a twentieth-century army. [1]

Ryan T12 Aug 2009 5:52 p.m. PST

Thanks to all for the help. Frederick, I found your link to the wapedia site especially useful.

Now to hunt down the figures I need. Does anyone know what a Solothurn 20mm Auto-Cannon looks like?

momoiro kakaricho13 Aug 2009 9:11 a.m. PST

You may want to try and take a look on the Axis History forum as well.

- Eric

BlackWidowPilot Fezian14 Aug 2009 5:11 p.m. PST

Here's an excellent photo:


link


The KMT used a very eclectic mix of weaponry to say the least… evil grin


Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Ryan T15 Aug 2009 8:27 a.m. PST

Hello Leland,

Now that's what I call a GUN! Thanks for the image.

Ryan

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