"Rules that can be easily picked up by non-wargamers?" Topic

Let me explain my situation.

I live in a country where practically nobody is interested in miniature wargaming, and the few handful devotees play the more "mainstream" miniatures such as Warhammer 40K.
(Although there are literally hordes of gamers who play computer-based RTS games like StarCraft and such)

So I'm collecting a small force of opposing Germans and Russians, which I can whip them out for a quick (no longer than 2 hours) skirmish game while entertaining friends and guests.

The forces will be no larger than 2 infantry platoons each, and supported by a couple of AFVs.

I'm looking for a ruleset that will play fast, while being simple and intuitive enough for me to teach my non-wargaming friends/guests "on-the-fly". (i.e. explaining rules on a "need-to-know" basis, as and when they want to perform the relevant actions)

I've been going through the forums and came across NUTS! and Disposable Heroes as likely candidates.
(In fact I've already purchased NUTS!, and waiting for it to ship)

Will NUTS! be a good choice for the kind of games I'm planning to play?

If not, which rules would work better?

link

not sure how these rules stack up to "nuts", but they are fairly simple and should fit your needs. they are free.

As a heretical suggestion, how about the board game Memoir 44. It's kind of a cross over game, still on a board, but using miniatures. Very fast & easy to grasp. Having them play M44 a few times might make the transition to regular wargames a bit easier.

If you run through it with them a time or two, Nuts should be fine. Anybody that wants to get it will. Of course, if they're really not interested, any set is going to be a tough sell. Nuts can be played well as a cooperative game, so you can all be on the same side. Ed frequently mentions this as a great way to introduce the rules. That also works as solo mode, so you can get in a few practice games before your big introduction. Let the rules control the "bad guys" and have at it!

Another nice thing about Nuts is that it's part of the THW stable of games, so you can easily switch periods and the basic mechanics are the same. If they don't go for WW2 immediately, perhaps an Old West gunfight or Zombie encounter will be more to their liking.

- Bob

While I am a big fan of Nuts! (and the other THW titles) I think that those Papertiger rules would be an easier sell to a non-gamer. They are very quick to learn and play rather quickly.

As a heretical suggestion, how about the board game Memoir 44. It's kind of a cross over game, still on a board, but using miniatures. Very fast & easy to grasp. Having them play M44 a few times might make the transition to regular wargames a bit easier.

This is actually a very good suggestion, and one that I had given some serious thought.

But since I also want to have fun myself with modelling and painting the miniatures, this option was discarded.
Another consideration weighing against M'44 was that people (especially non-gamers) will be much more attracted to a pretty looking army of miniatures, than bland green plastic figures :)

BTW Bob, the "cooperative" option sounds like a lot of fun!
That way, my non-wargaming friends won't feel that they've lost only because they're not familiar with the rules or something.

Does Disposable Heroes (or other small-scale skirmish rules) offer a similar "gang up against the system" option too?

Why not come up with some extremely simple home brewed rules of the move or shoot type, just to get them interested. Then when they see the inaccuracies of this system, they will be more than ready to move on. In the mean time, they will become familiar with the forces at hand, and have a working knowlege of game turns, morale checks, and firepower modifiers.

You can always use "real" miniatures with a real or enlarged M '44 board.

juniorgeneral.org

They have a D-Day scenario. The rules system is designed for novices.

Kraussian wrote:

[…] BTW Bob, the "cooperative" option sounds like a lot of fun!
That way, my non-wargaming friends won't feel that they've lost only because they're not familiar with the rules or something.

It also gives your buddies a chance to play hero and bail each other out, as well as allowing you (the experienced guy) to lead by example (for better or worse). You can even work in a bit of role playing where they are leading squads of fresh recruits, and you are the battle-hardened veterans… the stuff of many war movies.

The THW rules also include, or can easily add a medic rule, allowing them literally to save each other. This might appeal to some players more than just shooting and killing the other side.

THW games also handle vehicles in a way far different from most other games. Each is a self-contained unit of individuals, each with different characteristics. If your loader or driver is off, things can get very interesting. Giving a player an AFV or two gives them a very manageable task starting out, and might draw the interest of guys more into armor than infantry for a few games until they're hooked.

Don't forget the campaign rules, where individual figures can be tracked from game to game. Players get a lot more involved when it's "them" down there on the table. At the end of the game, keep track of what happened to their squaddies. They may want to come back just to see how their "guys" advance.

Whatever game you go with, I'd definitely add some "color commentary" to help explain the rules in real-world terms. Rather than just "you can't move because you failed a roll", explain it as "your rookie driver can't get it in gear!" and that sort of thing.

Good luck finding recruits, and happy gaming to you!

- Bob

Why not come up with some extremely simple home brewed rules of the move or shoot type, just to get them interested.

Hmm, now that's an excellent suggestion.

Since I can't trust myself (a wargaming newbie) to come up with decent and balanced rules, I think I'll go through NUTS! and "dumb down" or remove the more complex rules.

Bob, your suggestions are fantastic!
I'll be sure to try out the medic rules and campaign options.

So I guess I can give myself a pat in the back making a "correct" choice by purchasing NUTS! :)

Be sure to download the latest version of Chain Reaction 3. There are some great intro-type games in the files section of the Yahoo group. I really got hooked into THW after reading the "Dog Soldiers" scenario.

By the way, Ed will usually ship a copy of the PDF for any hardcopy game you purchase. I find them handy for searching.

- Bob

Whatever you choose make sure the rules are so easy that they lose interest and start with only a few figures each player.

Ed's advice is good.

You also need something relevant to the person to whom you are showing the hobby.

Nothing impresses like "this guy is shooting at that guy -- roll a '6' -- he's dead. How did you like it?"

mjc

WW2 rules written in the DBAtyle. I think I saw a variant posted on the Fanaticus website. .

Disposable Heroes is my personal favorite game system for WWII, Vietnam, and Spanish Civil War. I've played NUTS! as well, and it's fine but.. there are times when the NUTS! activation system drives me nuts! If you roll your initiative too low then your men/unit can't move at all. It feels wrong. You could move those guys last and just be able to duck or scramble for cover, or find a C.O. or SOMETHING. Not just sit like bumps on a log in the open waiting to get a bullet in you. So, you could do a home rules fix for that. Or you could order DH and compare systems.

Some folks say that DH is "too bloody'. Well, from the combat reports of close contact skirmishes I've read, it's seems fair and accurate. It's super fast to learn and play too. We teach DH newbies and kids to play at conventions all the time. They pick up the basics usually in 30-45 minutes or so. The tank rules are cool in DH too. I like them a lot. We always have tanks in our games, and the acquire rules allow the infantry and the anti-tank guns a fighting chance against the armored beasts.

I don't know the NUTS! rules as well, but I recall the armor rules being not as detailed or well-developed. It could be the author has corrected this in later editions. Not sure.
The DH guys and authors have a chat room on the rules and questions. They are very quick to respond online to players questions or comments, that's a plus for me too. I have played DH for 4 years now, and the rules don't "wear out" or seem flawed. Both are good systems. Good luck finding a rule system that works for you!
Cheers,
peter x

Actually I think DH will be easier for a novice to pick up. The mechanics are really pretty simple and straightforward or linear, but yes it is bloody. Nuts is great but it is perhaps less intuitive and difficult to pick up without an experienced gamer to run it the first couple of times.

D

Although I have never actually played them, I would suggest you check out the rules in Neil Thomas' "Wargaming: An Introduction". The book itself has simple rules covering all of the major periods, and the World War Two rules take up a whopping eight pages! Actually, I think one could get all of the rules on a double-sided cheat sheet.

Kevin

I've just picked up DH too.

Shipping cost me almost as much as the rulebook itself ($12 for a $16 USD book), but guess I'll just have to swallow that.
(I live on the other side of the pond, after all)

BTW I keep hearing that DH tends to be "bloody". Is that used in a good way?
I would think that soldiers dying left, right and center sounds like more fun, while also keeping the pacing fast.

If two opposing infantry squads need to keep shooting at each other for ages… that sounds like a sure way to bore casual gamers.

@Ed the Two Hour Wargames guy
I'll keep your advice in mind for the first few games.

@Kevin Brown
Would you have a link to that book?
Oh, never mind, I think I've found it.
Is this the correct one?
link

The Axis and Allies game also plays on hexes. But you could buy a hex mat and use your minis. All the stats are on the unit cards which you can also download. Simple, fast, fun and has just enough tactics. You can play once, switch sides and play again.

PDF link

And FREE.

Another rule set worth looking at is Legends of the Old West. Change a few names and work up a few stats and you;re ready to go – and can then easily change to Pirates, Lord of the Rings, and many other similar games!

I've played NUTS! as well, and it's fine but.. there are times when the NUTS! activation system drives me nuts! If you roll your initiative too low then your men/unit can't move at all. It feels wrong.

It is wrong. Sounds like you're playing the rules incorrectly.
If you're not active you get to react. Which means that when the enemy moves into your sight you get a reaction test and usually fire first. You don't just sit there.
Hope this helps.

If you're not active you get to react. Which means that when the enemy moves into your sight you get a reaction test and usually fire first. You don't just sit there.

Ah, that clears up one of the biggest disadvantages that I thought NUTS! had. Honestly, it didn't make sense to me that such a glaring design issue would be present in such a critically acclaimed ruleset.

Nice to know it was a misunderstanding :)

You ALWAYS react in THW games. That's a big part of what allows the solo/cooperative games to work, in fact. The non-player figures react when a player figures moves into line-of-sight, and react again when fired upon. Your men may not always react the way you want them to, but they never sit idly by while things happen to them.

THW games are so very different than most other conventional games that it takes a bit for experienced gamers (myself included) to let go of old habits. Once you do, though, it's very natural. Going first on an activation roll isn't always better.

peterx wrote:

[…] I don't know the NUTS! rules as well, but I recall the armor rules being not as detailed or well-developed.

The game is at a level lower than DH:C7B, and will typically play with fewer figures and with more focus on the individual. The vehicle rules are not lengthy, but very effective. For one thing, a lot of the rules from other sets pertaining to things like quality are simply not necessary. For example, a vehicle populated with a poorly trained crew is going to have a dickens of a time moving and firing with any coordination simply because the crew act (and react) like poorly trained troops. No modifiers or other mechanisms are required.

I would also counter that they are more detailed in many ways. Nuts is very much about the men, not "units". Vehicles are not robots. Since the vehicles are manned by individual crew members, their characteristics are important. If you attempt to plow through rough terrain, your driver has to take a test to remain in control. If you attempt to take too sharp a turn at speed, he must also test. If your loader fails to reload immediately, you have to wait for his next activation to fire (possibly missing out on reaction fire opportunities). I also like that there are rules for accelerating, turning and slowing down. None of the usual "move full distance, then skid 90 degrees" hockey stops for tanks.

Don't get me wrong: Nuts isn't perfect, and THW's rules have improved in quality and readability since it came out. There is a Nuts 2.0 Quick Reference Sheet available that anybody playing will definitely want. It updates many of the game mechanisms and greatly streamlines play.

I also highly recommend joining the Yahoo support group for those inevitable first game questions. Answers are usually posted quickly, often within hours.

I understand a new version is due "soon".

- Bob

Clarification: There are rules for turning, and resuming movement, not actually slowing down and accelerating. The key point being that some physics come into vehicle movement.

Yes, that is the correct link to Neil Thomas' book. He uses a simple set of rules, with largely the same game mechanics, for every major period from Ancients on up. I have some friend who have successfully used the ancients rules with novices in a convention setting, so I can only assume that the World War Two rules would be a great introduction to gaming.

Kevin

Thanks Ed, I played NUTS! at a Cold Wars and that activation problem bothered me. It seemed "wrong" but I was just a newbie player, so I muttered under my breath, and took the GM's word for it.
Kraussian, enjoy and good gaming.

There are downloads of rules developed from Memoir 44 to use regular or hex terrain.

I think the idea of Mem 44 as rules to introduce is still your best bet. The format of presentation you can choose.

G

This is possibly a bit more general than others and focussing more on the non-miniture gamers rather than getting GW gamers into something else. I have to say the easiest I have for easing people into wargaming are those that are hex based on a board – or something that looks like a board. Its more familiar to them – so look for something in that vein.

Start simple as its the details that get people. Ideally referee the game with new players playing rather than play yourself – you avoid the concept of them feeling they will lose because you know the game. Stop to explain on regular occasions and whenever they ask, but otherwise keep it moving.

Lots of rules, and most wargames have lots of details, will put people off – Pick up a rulebook and an army list and many people's response is 'oh god more rules' and they do not get beyond to the fact that you are actually grabbing one page.

Theme is also pretty vital – the new player has to be interested in what you are presenting. If they don't like tanks don't stick them in a FoW soviet tank force, if they want to play aircraft find a game that suits. THis does make it harder on you as you have to be much more flexible.

Memoir 44 is a decent idea and with the same rules you can go to Battlelore and Commands and Colors for other genres to either go to or feed from. From there you can move on to free movement games, then more miniatures – anyone know if there is a WWII equivalent of the Strategoes ruleset as that would fit a god halfway point?

In some respects naval gaming works very well as a stepping stone too. You have a coupla of things to control, but with reasonable detail on the ships. That gets them used to handling a data display.

Again we are back to the level of paraphernalia that is new each time. Someone who is used to picking up the hat, some cash and the dice are going to get worried if you had them, a box of weird looking dice, 50 miniatures, record sheets, order sheets, the scenery, a tape measure and their army list all in one go.

Wings of War is good for crossing over gamers to wargaming in my experience. SImple mechanisms, but then you can add altitude and miniatures if you wish. From the look of it a small Bag the Hun game would fit too – and anything of that vein – hexes, coupla models, coupla dice – maybe one sheet.

The bug will hopefully bite and they will play more advanced stuff eagerly at the point that you say 'well I have this game to try but its a bit more complex'.

Going back to the German/ Russian minis game – get a hex board and play with the minis on Mem44 – then see if you can find something really simple to use the units in free movement. Then try the ruleset you want to get to.