"are there any computer WW2 rules" Topic

Hi all, having write flames of war and put them back for sale on e-bay. I am looking for a good set of rules for actions of up to a battalion of infantry, and a troop of tanks with some good detail put not overload or plain silly as flames of war.
are there any good computer rules out there, I would think that WW2 would be idea for computor rules.
michael

The problem with computer rules for wargaming is that computers don't have hands to move the minis – unless you mean a computer game rather than minis on a table …

no I mean a set of rules for the computer, as to your computer not being able to move minis comment does your rule book move the minis,

I am still a bit in the dark as for what this "set of rules for the computer" is supposed to be.

A set of computer-moderated miniature gaming rules?

A set of rules with stats for fielding computers as part of your panzer division?

A set of rules that requires lots of calculations (computing)?

A set of rules on digital format?

Michael,

A member of our local group, Arofan Gregory, has designed several sets of computer assisted rules that he uses for games. They flow very well, here is his resource website:
link

He has a set of rules called Active Armor WWII, he has the Beta version available for download at his site above. Good set of rules, and the Beta is free, so you should give it a try and see if it fits your needs. He has the full version for sale here:

link

Paul

"are there any computer WW2 rules"
"are there any good computer rules out there,"

As far as I am aware the only "computers" that were used in WW2 were:

- the gunnery predictors used on ships for gunnery control
- the Turing Bombe used to crack the German Enigma codes

Most WW2 naval rules will cover the former. Sadly, I am not aware of any rules dealing with the latter.

For a cpmputer game …world at war steel panters for windows is a free down load with 200 scenerios . Shaprnal games

Ming,

Sorry to get picky but the game you're thinking of is Win. Steel Panthers World War Two. It goes by WinSPWW2 on my computer. That and it's brother, Win. Steel Panthers Main Battle Tank (winSPMBT) are fun games that are, indeed, free from Shrapnel games. Of course, you could buy the full version if you want the extras. Lots of good information in both even if you don't like the game.

Ken

Terry, watch the name calling. It doesn't go well on these boards.

Is terry1956 Mr. T. by any chance?

Thresher: there is also a game called Steel Panthers: World at War (or SPWAW for short).

OK its a computer game not a set of computer moderated rules but the Combat Mission series of games by Battlefront.com (NOT the flames of war guys) are the nearest thing i've come across that play like a WW2 tabletop game

link

Might be worth a look (even if its something to do while you find the compter moderate rules you're after!)

link

OK, joking aside, the thing I can't understand about computer moderated rules is why?

1. If you think that rules to be "realistic" must be "complicated" (and hence require a computer to do the number crunching) then I heartily disagree.
2. In my experience, the amount of time involved in entering data in to a CM set of rules makes them SLOOOW.
3. I am an inveterate "rules fiddler". I don't like the fact that I can't see the mechanisms being used to resolve actions in CM rules, or change them if I don't like them

I am inclined to agree with Mike on the question of computer moderated games.

I do enjoy pure computer games, since it can be hard to drum up an opponent and solo gaming does not work for me.

I am still utterly in the dark as to whether the OP is after a computer game or computer moderated rules.

Mike,

Another thing to add to your list is the delay or game ending computer crash that always seems to come at a critical moment.
And then there's always the complication factor in having to learn the rules AND how to operate the computer software effectively.
For the original poster, try Blitzkrieg Commander or, for a more detailed game, Schwere Kompanie. Both are great sets of rules and only require the computer inside your head to have a good game.
Blitzkreig Commander is paper. Schwere Kompanie comes in a digital format but should be, preferably, printed out.

Ken

Ken

I use the Computer Strategies games.

de Ligne above has the link.

They are designed for miniatures and have a WW2 version which I use and think is good.

The guy will add features fairly readily if you discuss with him.

Try them if you want to find out about them!

There were a few back in the 8 bit days, more aides for tank to tank combat, you put in what was shooting at what and at what range (and some other factors) and it calculated if it was a telling hit or not.

Most of us gave up and loaded something else on our computers or returned to using the airfix rules of some such for the table top.

I don't remember him asking your opinion of these rule types. Just if you knew of any. Seems like all some people care about is finding fault with how the question was posed or what the poster is asking for (Mike) instead of answering the question.

"Seems like all some people care about is finding fault with how the question was posed or what the poster is asking for "

I wasn't finding fault. I was finding humour!! :-)

"I don't remember him asking your opinion of these rule types."

True, he didn't, but rather than just answer his question with "No" (which would have been churlish) we preferred to discuss WHY there aren't any (or at least very few and not very well known or popular).

"Terry, watch the name calling. It doesn't go well on these boards."

Seems he got Dawghoused for the name calling …

My miniatures rules panzer-war.com have been turned into a computer game, Panzer Command by Matrix Games. Unlike CM it has not been turned out to pasture.

I think one of the big draw backs to computer strategies is that they won't take Paypal for an order. I've seen their site before and would like to try out one of their sets of rules but I refuse to email my Credit Card info. I think they would be better served opening a Paypal account to handle CC's.

I use Computer moderated rules for Naval Wargaming and my group likes the ease of just putting in the data, pushing the lead on the table and allowing the computer to crunch all of the numbers for you. SeaKrieg V would be easier set of rules if the computer did all of the calculations for you.

I have bought rules from Computer Strategies by PayPal. They just don't have the logo on their site.

I think the thing that is holding back any migration to computer assisted miniature rules is the lack of market. To make some really good computer assisted rules would take a lot of programming. That much effort would cost a lot of money and frankly there wouldn't be enough sales to warrant it. That much programming would be better put into a retail computer game or some other computer product and get much more return.

The one hope is as miniature players retire some of them will be former programmers. Who would spend the many hours just for the fun of the hobby and not expect a lot of $$$,

I think that the single-interface platform is a bottleneck, and so also a problem. You might produce something effective if each player had a palm-sized handheld with all networking together to form a seamless whole.

Having said that, I have always earned my living developing software, and I have no desire to mix a computer with my mini gaming.

Glad to see this is being discussed. I asked about this and just got jumped and ataced for it. Computer assists are a great way to get past the incest complaints about game play taking to long. Dont be discourged by the nay sayers, theres plenty of those for all ideas, especialy in wargaming. Its a great idea and the topic is asked about enough for their to be a market.

"Computer assists are a great way to get past the incest complaints about game play taking to long."

The solution to game play taking too long is to use less complex rules. A gridded playing area also speeds up a game enormously.

"Its a great idea and the topic is asked about enough for their to be a market."

If it's such a great idea how come there is not more of a market? So far there have been TWO (count them, two) sources of CM rules identified in this thread – and one of them is for a set of rules that are not available yet! I hardly call that a market …

I gotta supervise my spell checker and type much slower. Incest?!?!? oooopsy.

There is a market for it. People ask for on a regular basis.

Computers take care of the perception of complexity as well as actual complexity.

If nobody built any cars and everybody wanted a car, there would be a market for cars. It indicates demand.

BGG and this site are filled with negative minded people on the forums. I really hope that any aspiring programmer is not discouraged by the bombardment of negativity about these ideas. They have great potential. I know one guy here has and is currently writing assists but will tell you they are awful. Those with an open mind be aware there is more then one motive for squashing this idea.

"There is a market for it. People ask for on a regular basis."

Really? Can't say I'd noticed. And as you know I monitor the discussions on TMP quite closely.

"Computers take care of the perception of complexity as well as actual complexity."

Well I've never heard that before – and I've worked in the IT industry for over 30 years.

Computers are very good at doing certain things. They are absolutely hopeless at others. One of the things computers are not very good at is in the area of the user interface. WE have to use a pointing device (mouse) to indicate where on the screen we want to input data and then we have to TYPE on a keyboard (and we all know how inaccurate THAT can be!!). Honestly, it would probably be quicker to use a calculator to work out some calculation for a complex set of wargame rules than use a computer. You also have the problem of what happens if you enter something wrong?

Yeah well they can do computer assists quite well grognard.com/aides.html. If you have problem typing and mice then there is no help for you. But for those with a bit more motivation a computer assist would be quite helpful. Programing can certainly take care of imputing something wrong. Just like the text editor here. Backspace. Yeah Id agree with the calculator. But for some odd reason most scoff at that yet ask for computer assists. That odd phenomena was exemplified in a recent article on wired where a 14 year old tested an old cassette Walkman from Sony for a few days. I think younger folks are more comfortable with new tech.

grognard.com/aides.html

But none of those you link to at

grognard.com/aides.html

are computer moderated wargames rules, which is what we are discussing here.

"If you have problem typing and mice then there is no help for you."

Judging by the quality of spelling here on TMP, most wargamers have a problem with typing!!

"Programming can certainly take care of imputing inputting something wrong. Just like the text editor here."

But sadly , often doesn't.

"But for some odd reason most scoff at that yet ask for computer assists."

As I said, I've not noticed anyone doing so.

WEll tehrs been alot of that. And some guys programing is more tinkering. But it can be done. Some work very well. A Gregory, whoom I belive had or mybe still has a account here has one fully functional. Active Armor is another one. Theres been severl projects on spourceforge. They are around. grognard.com/aides.html I have this one it works great.

wargamesystems.co.uk

home.att.net/~npmarsh

link

link

"WEll tehrs been alot of that. And some guys programing is more tinkering. But it can be done."

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. There's been a lot of what? How is programming tinkering?

Of the four links you supplied, one of them (the third) link is just computer aides, so is irrelevant.

I dont see hows thats irrelvent. Nor do I understand the desire of so many to crush this great idea. Assists of any sort help. Aide de camp, army buiilder, Map creators. Also on the webgrgnards theres a spread sheet for combat resolution of some ACW game. Comabt resolution is really what needs assitsting. If you want the computer to move for you. Computers games and not minatures would be the route. Tonkering. Guys do on there spare time so they get a little done here and there. Everbody here is always talking about what little time they have so some projects go on for a while. I jointed joined a yahoo group for Virtual miniatures devolpemnt this morning.

link A Gregory's site.

His essay on computer assists. link

link
This one is been talked about often

"I dont see hows thats irrelvent. Nor do I understand the desire of so many to crush this great idea. Assists of any sort help. Aide de camp, army buiilder, Map creators."

No problem with computer assists but as I pointed out before the subject of the thread is Computer Moderated Wargames Rules, NOT all the other things you can do with a computer to support your games.

"Comabt resolution is really what needs assitsting."

For goodness sake, why? Most of the wargames rules I use, the combat resolution is simple enough not to need a computer.

"Tonkering. Guys do on there spare time so they get a little done here and there."

I am a programmer. Believe me, programming takes a lot more effort and organised thought than your so-called "tinkering"

"A Gregory's site."

Apart from compassistwargames.com I see nothing there about Computer Moderated rules.

"This one is been talked about often"

So often I've never noticed.

"Nor do I understand the desire of so many to crush this great idea."

Because it's NOT a great idea. I've tried it and for all the reasons I've outlined above, I think CM games leave a LOT to be desired.

I is a great Idea. There is more and more of this stuff out and the stuff works and is being used. Because the computer doesn't move them isn't a reason. Whys re there so many PC players posing as non PC players. Just go back to steel panthers.

"There is more and more of this stuff out and the stuff works and is being used."

Really? Where?

"Because the computer doesn't move them isn't a reason."

Nobody said it was …

"Whys re there so many PC players posing as non PC players. Just go back to steel panthers."

Don't understand a word of that. Who or what are PC players?
Steel Panthers is a computer game so again is quite irrelevant to this topic of discussion.
I don't play computer games (it's too much like work).

Going a bit overboard aren't we? It really is ok if someone else has a different opinion than yours.

Several people here try to squash ideas on this topic as they are actually writing there own systems.

There is a category for this subject and it has a lot more programs talked about then I even listed. Its weird that with all the complaints about game time and complexity that a computer doing the work is a problem? The whole it doesn't move the pieces for me thing I think indicates that there is no real opposition to the idea. It's such a flimsy reason to discount them. The motives are alterer

"Because the computer doesn't move them isn't a reason."

Nobody said it was …
Oh no?

Your first repsonce on this thread says otherwise.

"The problem with computer rules for wargaming is that computers don't have hands to move the minis "

Nobody said it was …
Oh no?

Your first repsonce on this thread says otherwise.

"The problem with computer rules for wargaming is that computers don't have hands to move the minis "

Humour is obviously completely lost on you.

"Several people here try to squash ideas on this topic as they are actually writing their own systems."

I haven't the foggiest notion where you got THAT idea from. If people were actually writing their own systems, then surely they would be PROMOTING the idea rather than dismissing it as a lost cause?

For the record, I am NOT and have no intention of ever developing a set of CM rules.

"There is a category for this subject and it has a lot more programs talked about then I even listed."

If that is the case, how come people have not come on this thread and mentioned all these?

TMP link

I've written a few programs but they are for development of wargames and not for the actual playing of the game. The output of these are used to fill tables for the tabletop game. I have a naval ballistics program that combined a ballistics trajectory program and Nathan Okuns penetration program. I wrote another one that just found the probability of hitting a tank size target using the ballistics trajectory program but tank gun data. And then I wrote another to find the probability of a squad hitting a man sized target based on the ballistics and number of their rifles and machineguns. Each calculation takes up to 15 seconds so it wouldn't be viable for a game.