"Converting Bengazi Handicap scenarios to Flames of War" Topic

I also intend to learn Command decision, but bear with m3e. Our club also likes big battles with multi players, and we already know FoW.

For those who have made the conversion, what did you do?
My first questions are:
As an off hand rule of thumb, should I just treble the forces involved?
Also, where can I get the more obscure types, like a 37mm portee, among others. Did you just use proxies?

John,

I think you'd be better served taking the BH scenarios and 'bathtubbing' them for FOW. Something like let a battalion (or even a brigade) be represented by a FOW company. It'll help keep the game managable while still providing the experience you are trying to model.

Otherwise, yes tripling the forces in the ORBAT would get you close enough.

Can't really help with the 37mm AT portee. In micro-scale you could get it. Not so sure about 15mm.

As The G Dog says, bathtubbing is a useful technique. But so as not to confuse players too much, keep the company structure at 1:1 scale. So a CD-TOB (BH) company may have three model tanks, but you know that means three tank platoons. Don't just triple the numbers to nine tanks; use the normal organization for three full-strength tank platoons and a company HQ--unless you have some reason to know that the unit is understrength.

For a 37mm portee, get the QRF Bofors 37mm AT Gun:

link

Stick it on a light truck with "8th Army" crewmen.

Allen

There's a 37mm portee in the battlefront/Flames of War range.

Code, please.

What is "bathtubbing"?

It derives from its use in Frank Chadwick's campaign products for the original Command Decision, although the concept actually goes back to Arnold Hendrick's "1944".

When recreating a WWII operation, at that level of war, you can be stressed to portray entire divisions at even a reduced scale. So the number and size of units can be reduced by a rough factor of (usually) three, and then can be reduced by three or so again by the game scale.

So let's say you have a US armored division of three combat commands, comprising three tank battalions, three armored rifle battalions, and three armored artillery battaions, plus other supporting assets. You'd "bathtub" that organization to a single combat command, consisting of one tank battalion, a single armored rifle battalion, and a single armored artillery battalion. And then in Command Decision or a similar "platoon scale" game, each of those battalions would be reduced to a handful of vehicles, the lot of them standing in for a full armored division in the campaign.

In wargaming products with bathtubbed historical campaigns, such as Frank's "Bastogne" or S-2 Productions' "Operation Sealion", the organizations usually retain the names of the original, so that in the Battle of the Bulge, say, 28th Infantry Division would appear in the bathtubbed OOB as "28th Infantry Regiment".

Now, you're using Flames of War, which is notionally a 1:1 scale game. You could simply scale down divisions as brigades or regiments, or battalions as companies. Or you could step down the size two levels, to provide more variation in equipment types.

So, let's take the order of battle for 7th (British) Armoured Division in June 1940:

4th Armoured Brigade
- 7th Hussars
- 6th Royal Tank Regiment

7th Armoured Brigade
- 8th Hussars
- 1st Royal Tank Regiment

Support Group
- 4th Royal Horse Artillery
- 1st Kings Royal Rifle Corps
- 2nd Rifle Brigade

Divisional Troops
- 11th Hussars
- 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery

You could "bathtub" it once, and have something like this as "7th Armoured Brigade":

4th Armoured Group
- Sqdn, 7th Hussars
- Coy, 6th Royal Tank Regiment

7th Armoured Group
- Sqdn, 8th Hussars
- Coy, 1st Royal Tank Regiment

Support Group
- Btry, 4th Royal Horse Artillery
- Coy, 1st Kings Royal Rifle Corps
- Coy, 2nd Rifle Brigade

Divisional Troops
- Sqdn, 11th Hussars
- Btry, 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery

Then you'd have to mosh the task organization around a bit to give each player a bit of this and a bit of that.

Or you could "bathtub" it one level yet again, as "7th Armoured Battalion":

Sqdn, 7th Hussars (2 x plts)
+ Plt, 1st Kings Royal Rifle Corps
+ Plt, 4th Royal Horse Artillery
+ Plt, 11th Hussars

Coy, 1st Royal Tank Regiment (2 x plts)
+ Plt, 2d Rifle Brigade
+ Plt, 3d Royal Horse Artillery

…thus creating a FoW force for one or two British players, representing all the regiments of the Desert Rats en petit.

Allen

Point of Correction. The Command Decision module "Bastonge" referenced above is not bath-tubbed. "Barbarossa 25" is, however.

"What is "bathtubbing"?"

Look it up on the internet, geesh a little research.

i got something completely different: bathtubbing.com

(Yes, it is work/family safe)

Geoff

>>> Point of Correction. The Command Decision module "Bastonge" referenced above is not bath-tubbed. "Barbarossa 25" is, however.

Rich is absolutely right. I had a brain cramp!

Allen

"Rich is absolutely right. I had a brain cramp"

Rub some dirt in it! Walk it off!

I've been digging for figures in the garage and the back bedroom all afternoon. It's *cooled down* to 105. I couldn't be any sweatier or grimier. A little more dirt can't hurt…

I am now a much cleaner and cooler (temperature-wise) god. I go now to partake of the blessed nectar of the barley; after a few bottles, I will speak to my little worshippers. And then sell them into servitude in a foreign land. Mwhahahahahahaha!

"You failed me. I lost interest in you. Be gone."

"What is "bathtubbing"?"

Look it up on the internet, geesh a little research

I look on TMP as a conversation between friends. After some joshing (which Allen strangely did not do this time. I blame it on the heat, and the pleasant glow of the blessed nectar…), I get good answers, and knowledgeable ones.
TMP is more reliable than a blind search on the internet, and also pleasant conversation.
When I ask a friend a question at Dugan's over beer and pizza, I do not expect Mark or Jim to tell me "go look it up."

"After some joshing (which Allen strangely did not do this time."

What, are your fingers broke from canvassing for Comcast?

Howzat?