"Middle Guard Fannions" Topic

Hi,

Although I have a large Napoleonic French collection I have only recently started to paint up French Guard units, and admit to finding gaps in my knowledge.

I am aware that Fusilier-Grenadiers and Fusilier-Chasseurs battalions carried no Eagles, but instead fannions.

Can anyone tell me if these were tricolour fannions in 1813/14 carrying battle honours or of some other style?

My google fu is weak.

Thanks

Fat Wally,
picture

picture

Regards,

Colbert to the resuce yet again!

Ta very much.

Can you tell me are these GMB fannions the 1804-1812 ones as they aren't on their list for 1813/14?

I guess they didn't change.

From what I have read many battalions in a regiment carried battalion fannions with only one Eagle for the regiment. The old Blandford book on Russia 1812 has a plate showing a battalion fannion.

It seems that fannions were used heavily used in battle by units capable of skirmish actions.

"It seems that fannions were used heavily in battle by units capable of skirmish actions." Do you have a source for this observation?

@RudyNelson,
The Question is about the Fusilier-Grenadier Btns & Fusilier Chasseur Btns.
Regards,

No Steve just a few illustrations of such units in battle carrying flags other than Eagles.

It has been a long time since I researched this era. So I will have to try to dig up my notes from 1980 and later 1998.

Colbert's illustration is spot on- as far as we can be sure about this topic (its strangely poorly documented for such a famous formation as the IG), its what the Fusilier Grens carried. Similar but red for the Fusilier Chasseurs?

Ages ago though, I did see one illustration of an 1804 pattern flag bearing all the usual Guard decorations with the inscription 'Regiment des Fusiliers Grenadiers'. I never got to the bottom of what it was or how reliable. Could be illustrator's wishful thinking, or maybe a flag made or projected in anticipation of the regiment receiving an eagle, which of course never happened. IF it was made I wonder if it was ever carried on a spearpoint pole along with or instead of the fanions?

In Haythonwaites blandford book 'Retreat from Moscow' in plate 13 is an good color illustration of a battlaion fannion. A good narrative which states the French Bn colors as 1st= red with top horizonal stripes of blue on the top and bottom; 2nd = Blue center with red shorizonal stripes at the top and bottom; 3rd= three red and two blue alternating horizonal stripes; 4th = half red and blue vertical bars with blue next to the staff.

They are referredto as formation 'markers' and rallying point markers. it had a spearpoint top.

These refer to the 2e ligne only, in 1812!

Steven I will check the narrative but I thought the narrative referred to all French battalions in Russia 1812 and maybe the 1813 campaign but I will have to check it again when I get home.

@RudyNelson,
Your point is ?
The topic is about Fusilier- Grenadiers & Fusilier Chasseurs. Nothing to do with Ligne Régt or some Blandford book.
Regards

Fanions were designed for the battalions of a regiment that no longer were authorized an eagle (which was every battalion in a regiment except the 1st).

The 2d battalion's fanion was to be white, the 3d red, the 4th blue, green for the 5th, yellow for the 6th, violet for the 7th, and sky blue for the 8th (if a regiment had a 7th and 8th battalion).

These fanions were to be one meter square and plain with no decoration. As usual, the last part was ignored by the units and fanions were decorated by the units, making them a prize in combat, which was not Napoleon's intention. They were merely distinguishing flags and nothing more. Many of them were ornate, they were not always square, and the spearpoint was merely the usual finial.

Sincerely,
K

Colbert,
What information have you provided or know but failed to provide? Photos of commercial products may be nice but fail to provide the supporting material some people demand. (Not me as I like any material that can be found)

When you have some information on the topic of fannions, seemed to be better to provide what you have than to not provide any.

Kevin in the later post provided even more and better information. Were all middle and young Guard battalions in the regiments authorized Eagles? If not then it seems likely based on the guidlines mentioned that they carried fannions.

@RudyNelson,
Yes, you may like any material that can be found. But the topic is "Middle Garde Fannions" A point you fail to grasp.
Regards,

Colbert,
According to your comment, Then apparently Kevin failed to grasp it as well. I do not think so. We provided what information on Fannions that we had whether it applied to a specific unit or not.

You failed to answer the basic question of the number of battalions per Middle Guard formation. Also all you provided to the discussion were a couple of pictures of commercial paper flags and painted units. I was trying to be concilatory with my commetns on your intial posts. In my opinion, please offer better data or any data in the future.

As of 1812, only the senior infantry regiments were issued and carried eagles. Therefore the 1st Grenadiers a Pied and the 1st Chasseurs a Pied carried eagles.

The Middle and Young Guard infantry regiments carried fanions. The fusilier regiments carried blue ones, the voltigeurs red, tirailleurs white, and the flankers yellow. As with the line, the fanions were supposed to be plain, but that directive was gleefully ignored and they were quite ornate.

Sincerely,
K

Thanks Kevin for another informative post that should put the question to rest.

You're very welcome.

Sincerely,
K