"Creating Playable Ultra-Tech Armies" Topic

Hello all,

There has been a lot of talk about sci-fi forces, minis, and alien beings, but all this talk seems to revolve around a certain range of "middle of the road" sci-fi tech level. This has me thinking if it is possible to play out higher tech sci-fi and still have it be fun. More specifically, can you pit such a force against a lower tech force and still have fun?

It would also be interesting to dicuss what sortso f tech are fun and playable.

For example, in a sci-fi RPG I once ran, I had grav APCs that used a sort of teleporter to debark their troops. They went as far as being able to transport the soldiers into cover or in particular formations.

Also, I have considered using using energy screens instead of armor on vehicles to make them faster and more manueverable.

What do you think?

-Eli
leadpeople.blogspot.com

Well, if we are talking ultra tech, does this equate to things like telekinesis, disintegrators and time travel?

Where do you draw the line?

Just think of all the fun/torment you'd have trying to work out rules for time travel. Depending on your views, you could keep going backwards and forwards in time and end up generating an army of 'you' at one point in time so that you could take on your foe in numbers!

How would a disintegrator affect vehicles, buildings and terrain? Would hitting a hedge disintegrate the whole hedge or disintegrate a hole through it and everything behind it upto a certain range…if it has a limit to the range that is.

Who needs weapons when you have intelligence levels that mean you can stop bullets with your mind, turn them around and throw them back towards your enemy? What about picking up vehicles and throwing them or using them as shields? Depending on the power, ripping up huge chunks of earth (and more!) could be used to create barriers and weapons.

Lets take it even further…molecular manipulation. Teleportation, disintegration, planet destruction, changing atmospheres to poison, walking and breathing in any environments…a visit to the sun? No problems!

Tractor beams. Nuclear weapons and their nastier side effects. Anti grav. Undead/re-animation. Super-clones? Easy.

Just imagine you have landed on a poisonous planet with no life, no features and no useable minerals. You turn to your Moleculemancer and before you know it, the atmosphere is the right temperature and contains the perfect mix of gasses to enable you to breathe. You walk outside and he points at the ground…a castle appears, complete with running water and a food supply!

It all depends how far you want to go…

I would think that ultra tech armies would use technology as force multipliers and thus reley on fewer units to to what a larger mid tech organization would need more boots on the ground to do.

Maybe scale down the requirments, for instance: an ultra tech unit of about platoon size could have the potential capabiltiies of a mid tech company. Maybe due to use of robotic drones for recon and other offsite or orbital artillery for fire support, the unit could accomplish what a mid tech company would normally be needed to do.

In the GURPS traveller book about imperium military, they discuss nexus warfare where the mission objectives are power, or life sustenance sources (water, food) or fuel supply points or transportation nexi are targeted with smaller yet powerful forces augmented by technology like mentioned above.

That way you could field fewer figs but still have mission objectives that are challenging.

Just some thoughts

Hi Eli

I think Future War Commander does a decent job of being able to represent Hi tech.

I am developing the use of my understanding of 'string theory' within Sci Fi games.

In movement terms it's similar to teleportation. The miniature – I'm really thinking vehicle because of the power required, uses string theory to concentina/collapse the universe at that point in time/space to instantaneously move from point A to point B. I'm working on all the ifs and buts….

In defence terms, I'm also thinking of string theory being used, this time by infantry also, to allow the individual who is say under fire, to take cover by opening a conduit to another time/universe as the bullets etc fly towards him, and then phase back into his own universe to engage the enemy. It's a bit like ducking behind a wall but you are actually ducking into a parallel universe or a time when no action was taking place at that spot.

I have a really crazy idea about gaming with string theory where both sides are phasing into different realities and their computers are trying to match those realities with those of the enemy.

Instead of one firefight taking place at point X, you have several firefights taking place at the same place but in different realities, and troops/units are able to phase between these realities. At the most easily understandable level, I suppose we are talking battles in 'Minkowski spacetime'. Think in terms of 3 dimensional chess.

You can have different 'tables' set up where elements are fighting the same battle in the same terrain (but not always), across time and paralell universes. You as the commander can phase/shift your forces between the different tables as the tactical situation dictates.

I'll write it up on the blog with a test battle sometime this week.

Cheers
Mark
dropshiphorizon.blogspot.com

"Where do you draw the line?"

Answer this FIRST, THEN design the game.

One way you could use Ultra tech is to establish that the Ultra tech force at some point stopped developing military technology. They can teleport but their weapons are on par with yours.

Another approach would be the Predator movie. You attain more honor by defeating your opponent in hand to hand with primitive weapons. You can still use your cloaking device to close the distance, your sensor array and body armor are not dishonorable.

Ultra tech forces have not had a war for millenia and they have no popular culture that promotes war. In short they have forgotten what war is. In game terms this could mean they don't recognize danger and need to make a roll to utilize cover etc…

Mark, you make my head hurt..:)

I'm not even going to delve into the PSB just yet, but the String Theory is kind of a cool approach to the ultra-tech.

As to the previous the other posts so far,

I agree that they might be used as force multipliers. In fact most games take this approach by either limiting TO&E or through the use of a points system that makes niftier tech cost more.

It really comes down to identifying those pieces of ultra-tech that are fun to play with and that do not bog the game down.

There are a few tech items that I figure fall into the managible category –

1) Screens/Shields – These can be used in place of or to suppliment armor in games.

2) Teleportation – Really this can be used as a movement system to even to accomidate nasty tactics such as the APCs I mentioned earlier in the post. I even remember reading about a weapon system in some game/book/comic that teleported it's projectiles from the end of the muzzle to the target. A bit crazy for me, but an idea of how the teleport can be used.

3) Super Weapons – Death rays, disintegrators, statis rays, etc. can all be used to some effect without unbalancing the game. Generally, I find they are most useful in games that allow for more tactical options otherwise they are way overpowered for simple move-shoot-cover games.

I am sure there are others but these are the ones that pop out of my head. A lot of times it all comes down to simple stat multipliers with a suitable layer of PSB.

-Eli
leadpeople.blogspot.com

For Cold Navy, one of the playable Ultra-Tech races I had was the Tokadii.
Their ability was that their "Hive Mind" had the mental capacity to transcend space-time. So, these minds- called Omnis- would detect and defuse altercations with their race well before the event actually occured.
Covert actions, trades and political deals with neighboring regions to destabalize and inhibit future foretold transgrsssion.
How do you fight an enemy that already knows how to stop you before you even consider attacking him?

However… they've been known to send their own in "failed" combat actions as the Omnis foretold that such an event would help the broader scheme of things.
Example- the Omni would tell their Tokadii soldeirs to attack knowing that their losing said battle would propel the other side's commander to Hero status and this, in a position where he would influence events in their favor.

Such vessels of the Tokadii Realm only came in two flavors- Cruisers, that did all the fighting and the Command Craft, which carried the Omnis should they ever choose to go offworld.
For the Tokadii differing types of craft are irrelevant as war never happens. They've already avoided or assured a favorable outcome- win or lose- years, even decades, before a shot is fired.
Such vessels however, were bio creations- ships grown when necessary and die off when no longer needed. Their weaponry was highly advanced and, being telepathic themselves, the Tokadii could determine the enemies actions as they're being made.
In game terms, Tokadii always had initiative and their defensive capabilities were pretty much off the chart. Their point cost however, was also equivalent to these advantages and usually the scenario favored the opponents- since such battles were already pre-destined.

Food for thought.

Sounds like the Tokadii are based on the Vorlons from B5. How does Cold Navy handle the game effects for these powers (generally speaking)?

-Eli
leadpeople.blogspot.com

If you think about it, all such tech is already covered.

The higher the tech, the more indistinguishable it is from magic.

Also, the higher the tech, the more an equally teched opponent will have counters, so it balances out unless you want to introduce disparities in the tech levels within an army, or between two armies.

Otherwise, if your opponent has an energy shield, you can be pretty sure you'll bring the weapons needed to defeat that shield.

Hi Turtle

I agree with your magic analogy.

I'm not convinced that armies at equally matched tech levels will have the same weapons or same solutions. There will still be accountants and politicians in the future who will see to this.

Eli is right. At the end of the day it all comes down to combat multipliers or factors on the tabletop. But, sometimes we need to go out of our way to model the 'fun' aspects which provide our futuristic games with colour and definition, otherwise we might as well be playing with our WW2 Panzer Grenadiers with a plus 3 on the dice.

Cheers
Mark