"Did Native Americans use swords?" Topic

They had ample oppurtunity from those captured or recovered from their slain enemies, but did they employ them or did they reshape them?

I can't find any difinitive answer but I have seen examples of them turning them into lances or making several knives.

Was there any particular Indian that weilded one?

Chiefs or Micos in the South during the war of 1812 were often given a regimental coat = a gorget + a sword and a rifle or musket as a sign of postion of authority by both the Americans and british.

The use of the sword in battles not something I have seen written about. It would be hard to imagine that a captured sword would have simply been discarded.

According to "Warriors at the Little Big Horn 1876" from Osprey the Cheyenne warrior Young Little Wolf wielded a saber at the battle. Part of its blade was painted in red colour.

I understand that classical Mesoamericans used swords of wood with sharp obsidian on the edge(s). Likely not the kind you desire to use, but there were some swords, although they likely functioned more like axes.

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I guess it depends on the period. Some did, others didn't. It isn't all that effective a weapon in the later Indian Wars in the American West with all of the firearms, pistols, and on occasion cannon. But I'm sure it was used on both sides – the question is how common was it. And the answer is like most things a bit elusive as there are not many reports which verify usage.

Hariomer has pointed to one such anecdote which is still debated, but likely to be true, but that is ONE out of several thousand involved in the battle.

Religon has hit upon the more likely use which is the Obsidian swords of Aztec and other origins which were used frequently, but were not found in the northern Indian tribes of the plains and South West.

At least in the Northeast and Northwest, a sword would a pain in the neck compared to a useful axe or tomahawk – I suspect that the use in these settings would be rare indeed, no matter how many could be captured

I remember seeing a treaty sword from the civil war era that had been ground down to make the silliest Bowie knife ever in a plains museum a couple of years ago.

A friend of mine has a sword given to the Nez Pierce that spent its working life as a fire spit.

Such seemed the fate for most of the plains and northwest swords, they just weren't that practical.

I remember reading about some Inuit used some swords from the lost Frankland expidition and broke them/sharpened them till they were long knives and used them for butchering…

Kind of interesting that none of the native cultures on the American continents seem to have developed much in the way of metallurgy, at least beyond the softer precious metals (gold and copper, especially). Were there no iron deposits close enough to the surface to allow for easy extraction?

Pre-Colombine American cultures were living in the "Stone Age" that is, most of their tools were made out of stone; I am sure that if they were given more time they would have reached more "advanced" stages of technological development.
The Aztecs indeed had small copper axes, but they were expensive and used more as "money" that actual tools.

Plus, a sharp flint probably kept an edge better than a pure copper axe

I have seen what I am told was Geronimo's sabre, a US cavalry sabre that he surrendered when he was taken into captivity. The sword was given to an Arizona rancher in return for his hospitality while Geronimo was under escort. It's still in the same family in Young. Make sure you get advanced permission to visit his private museum, the home security system is a Colt 45 hanging by the door.

Hi

Javelin, the history of the world is pretty empty of the use of iron, that is why "iron age" has a name! In an ordinary firepit one might cook bits of copper or tin out of a rock and accidently discover their use. Iron is not so obvious.

In europe, copper dates back to ca 13,000 BC or so. Last I looked, earliest finds were in a refuse pit in Jericho from then. But the "metal workers" didn't get to the point of doing iron until after inventing forced venting for their work and thus, Iron is "obvious" at 1300 BC with the Hittites and over the next couple hundred years IN THAT AREA.

A little more interesting with the "obvious" is that of not inventing the wheel in the americas except as a TOY.

Rocky

Truely would be unusual. The occasional capture sword might show up, but, in combat, they wouldn't have been trained to use it. In combat you tend to go with what you know.

I ve seen broken swords made into war clubs (they look like a bat or ax handle with 8" or so of a sword punched through it.)

I've read a few account of Inca and Aztecs using captured swords to good effect.

"Was there any particular Indian that weilded one?"

Runs with Scissors.

I have not read anything in my research to indicate that North American Indians used swords on a regular basis. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I would have to believe these are very rare, indeed.

And mex10mm, thank you for stating that so clearly and fairly. I've actually had people get very upset with me for saying the exact same thing: that, technologically, North American Indians were essentially a stone age culture. In time, I'm certain they would advance like other cultured did, but technologically, they hadn't really moved very far in terms of metal working.

Well, Runs with Scissors may have wielded a gift saber, a gift from a Grateful Queen ("Now would you kindly go bother the Yankees, and leave My Loyal Subjects in peace?"), but just how good was he? When he was doing the Tour, did he take fencing lessons at a reputable fencing dojo in Paris or Vienna? Or, perhaps he went to Heidelberg and practiced with the schlager? I think not.

I have read that on the Plains after the Civil War the Indians considered a saber a very good trophy. However, once the Bluecoats got the hang of pistols from the Confederate cavalry, sabers became parade weapons. Only one officer at the Greasy Grass [Little Bighorn] carried one. That was Lt De Rudio who was a minor Italian nobleman and considered it important to his image.
Natokina.

Well, *South* Americans used 'swords' of a sort. Basically flat clubs with studded stone edges. Surprisingly effective, apparently.

Most northern tribes didn't have iron, or used it very sparingly due to a nomadic lifestyle. Obsidian daggers were possible, but tricky for an open fight.

I'd think an indian would appreciate the value of a sword, but might enjoy a machete or Kukri more, especially as they'd be useful for hunting as well as warfare.

One of the FOUNDRY Apaches has a sabre

Some points:

I understand that classical Mesoamericans used swords of wood with sharp obsidian on the edge(s). Likely not the kind you desire to use, but there were some swords, although they likely functioned more like axes.

Your link, from the Codex Mendoza, clearly shows the Maquahuitl, or obsidian sword. It did not function like an axe, rather a sword that could slash very well, but not thrust (no sharpened end).
Axes were reserved for Meso-American nations that practised metallurgy, such as the Tarascans.

Religon has hit upon the more likely use which is the Obsidian swords of Aztec and other origins which were used frequently, but were not found in the northern Indian tribes of the plains and South West.

Obsidian is a very, very hard volcanic glass. Unsurprisingly, the obsidian trade was dominated by the Maya, who lived amongst the volcanoes of modern day Guatemala and Honduras. Trade would have effectively ended at the northern most extent of the Toltec and, later, Aztec empires. That is why you don't find much obsidian in modern day US territory. Any that would have found it's way this far north would most likely have been used in decorative carvings and not weaponry.

A little more interesting with the "obvious" is that of not inventing the wheel in the americas except as a TOY.

Rocky, I would expect you to know better. All the "civilized" cultures of the New World had the wheel. Look at their cities, and you will suspect that the engineers who built them could have designed a pretty good chariot or wagon. What they didn't have in this part of the world was a suitable draught animal. No horses (long dead by now), no onagers, donkeys, camels (also long dead), oxen etc. Alpacas and llamas don't count. While happy carrying loads on their backs, they are rather reticent about pulling. Same goes for ploughing fields. This was always done by human labour as there were no suitable animals here either..

I've read a few account of Inca and Aztecs using captured swords to good effect.

More likely Inca and Tlaxcallans, allied to the Conquistadors. The grateful Europeans would give Toledo swords to the commanders of their allies, who did use them to good effect. This is shown in the Relacion de Tlaxcalla.

Obsidian daggers were possible, but tricky for an open fight.

Not only were they possible, but very frequently used, even in open fights. Also, they were excellent for removing the hearts from sacrificial victims.

Ralph