"Italian armored car organization, c. 1935-36" Topic

I've been scouring the web tonight for information on the organization of the Italian Lancia 1ZM armored cars at the time of the invasion of Ethiopia, but I need to compare notes with any fellow TMPers who have more concrete info.

From what I've gathered so far, an Italian armored car squadron (squadriglia di autoblindo) had 13 vehicles; 12 combatants and one command car, divided amongst 3 or 4 sections (sezione). If it was three sections, then 4 cars were deployed in each, and if four sections, then 3 cars were in each. Also, it seems as though most if not all these armored cars used by the Italian Army were deployed from Somalia and used primarily on the southern front.

So, how did I do? Thank you.

Hi Saginaw, can't be of any direct help, I'm afraid, but you might try searching the Forum posts over at Commando Supremo, usually plenty of obscure info on the Italians over there!

link

Cheers, SteelonSand.

steelonsand.blogspot.com

Sounds about right to me from what I've read. The armoured cars were far more popular on the Ogaden (southern) front, where the open terrain allowed them to operate far more effectively. IIRC, an armoured car was involved in the Walwal Incident in 1934 (that was later used by the Italians as a pretext for war).

I've not seen any pictures of armoured cars used in the north, the CV33/35 tankettes seem to have been far more adapted to the terrain – even if they had their drawbacks!

Thanks Steelonsand for the Commando Supremo link, the forum there looks very detailed!

Saginaw -

I wrote the Italian sourcebook for Panzer Korps a little over a year ago, so I thought I'd check that (and my sources) to see if I could find anything that might be of assistance. The Abyssinian campaign is something I'd like to do, myself, personally I've been frustrated by the lack of support weapons for the Ethiopians and Italians in current Abyssinia ranges! I suppose we should be happy to have the figures we do have, though.

Anyway…

During the campaign, the Italians had three companies (roughly one battalion) of L3s and a battalion's worth of armored cars; these were mostly Lancias, but Fiat 611s were also used. Both were treated as Army/Corps level assets and were assigned out as needed. From what I've been able to gather, the general assumption here is correct – the armored cars served together, in the south, while the L3s served in the north. The armored cars would have been taken, mainly, from the colonial establishment in Italian Somaliland. That would explain the ready availability of the Lancias. The Fiats may have arrived as reinforcements, but I can't confirm or deny that for certain – I just know they were there.

The encounters with Ethiopian (!) Fiat 3000 tanks seem to have taken place mainly with the armored cars, rather than the L3s. The Ethiopians also had a handful of improvised armored cars (sometimes described as armored Fords or armored Chevrolets), but I've had a devil of a time tracking down any solid details on them. Just as well, but might be fun to throw in one every once and a while as a surprise for the Italians.

In addition, the Italians had a few armored trucks. They look a heck of a lot like the armored Lancias used by the British Army in Ireland during the 1920s.

I wish I had more for you. I have "The Rape of Ethiopia" on the shelf; I'll page through it tonight and if I can get any more information for you I'll post it here.

-Aurelian

Aurelian, that's interesting to know. I have to agree about the lack of support weapons in current Abyssinia ranges, though hopefully that will be resolved in the near future! I'm collecting for the campaign anyway as it's too fascinating not to game…

I know the Ethiopians captured some L3s (there's a superb photo of one being driven) but hadn't heard of them actually being used in combat against the Italians, or any other tanks for that matter. Would make for a very interesting 'what if' scenario, however!

Pict17 -

Would definitely make for some interesting scenarios! Do you happen to have a link to the photo of the Ethiopian L3? That's something I'd love to see.

-Aurelian

The picture of the captured tank is on Corbis, I'll give you the details in case the link doesn't work:

Link:
link

Standard RM (RM)
U331571ACME

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soldier in Small Tank
Original caption: Now with the Other Side. Jijiga, Ethiopia. An Ethiopian soldier, perfectly familiar with its mechanism, operates one of the small tanks captured from the Italians in a triumphal tour of the parade grounds at Jijiga, recently. The demonstration was watched by Ras Nasiby, high Ethiopian commander.
IMAGE:
© Bettmann/CORBIS

DATE PHOTOGRAPHED
January 06, 1936

LOCATION
Jijiga, Ethiopia

PHOTOGRAPHER
H.V. Drees

COLLECTION
Bettmann

I'm almost certain this is one of three of four tanks that were captured in an ambush in the Ogaden by the troops of Fitorari Gongol, reported on by George Steer in 'Caesar in Abyssinia'. The crews were shot after they had climbed out of the vehicles and the tanks were eventually taken back to Nasibu's base in Jijiga, where Steer was shown them. Though the Ethiopians could drive them, I don't think they were ever used against the Italians.

Would make for some fascinating conversions though! I am currently working on some of the Chieftain/Anglian miniatures CV35s.

That's a great picture, and a fantastic bit of history, Pict. Thanks for the link!

-A.