"WW2 vehicles in use past the war?" Topic

I wonder if the Centurian ranks as the most succesful British tank design ever? Shame it was just slightly too late to actually fire its guns in WW2!

Saw a Israeli half Track running in Eilat in 1985.
Greg

How about the DC3?

Still in use all over the world although not in the military generally.

IDF still uses the M3 halftrack on the low end of the reservist readiness lists.

I'm sure the T-34 is still in service somewhere, they were in Yugoslavia.

I think you'll find those are the longevity winners.

Obsolete is a whole different matter, though.
-Kle.

Well while technically not a tank I see lots of Sherman, M48, M60 and M113 lower superstructure and running gear now (still) doing a job as logging equiupment. Many yarding towers have a tank chasis as the base. The crews look at me funny when I stand there and check out the thing out. Most of them have no idea about the history they are working with.

Brazil
M8 Greyhound
M3 Stuart
M4 Sherman

Actually there were also a few M-3 Lees in service in the early 1960s. I have photos of them being used dring the coup in 1964, although they were in reserve service then.

kaoschallenged
that canadian built sherman grizzly on that site had a continental engine .do you know was the engine imported from us or licenced produced in canada

So far as I know the Wright R-975 Whirlwind was license built by Continental Motors and used in the Canadian Ram,Skink,Sexton and Kangaroo too. Along with the Sherman,M7,M3,M18,M12 GMC and M40 GMC.

Robert

"Actually there were also a few M-3 Lees in service in the early 1960s. I have photos of them being used dring the coup in 1964, although they were in reserve service then."

Brazil recieved M3 Lees through Lend Lease. According to "M3 Lee/Grant Medium Tank 1941-45" By Steven J. Zaloga and Hugh Johnson they were used into the 50's with some of the diesel ones being rebuilt with Continental radial engines. Some were sold to Paraguay in the 50s

Robert

Surviving M3s as of May 2009
PDF link

Probably an amazingly ignorant question, but in the PDF a bunch of the tanks have a "collar" around the muzzle of the 75mm gun – what's that for?
-Kle.

The German halftracks, 251 used in Europe and then by Czech, and they have build OT 810.

Where they were known as "Adolf's Revenge" ;o).

On the subject of Yugo T34s a couple of years back I saw one that had come out of Bosnia and ended up at the War and Peace show in Kent. Anyway, it was a beautiful early T34/85 with split commander's hatch. The guys running it had no idea…

Klebert – The only thing I can think of is to counter muzzle jump when they fire. But I thought that's what muzzle brakes were for so could well be wrong.

It's a muzzle counterweight, to balance the gun if the barrel is of insufficient weight compared to the breech. It helps maintain barrel stability when firing. You also see such counterweights on some very early-model Shermans, tank-mounted 6pdrs, 17pdrs mounted on M10c tank destroyers and the 95mm close support tank howitzer.

Muzzle brakes do a different job – they reduce recoil by redirecting some of the exhaust gases to 'push' against the baffles of the brake, thus counter-acting the recoil.

The Centurion is still in service (just about) with the South African army in a much modified version known as the Olifant (Elephant). Though on paper the fleet is an impressive 200+ tanks, apparently only a handful actually work.
It was due to be replaced by either the Challenger II or the LeClerc, but this has since been canned and they are now thinking to upgrade the Olifants (again).

I think there is only a single squadron of Olifant 2s (which is a very modern-looking tank – looking a lot like a Leopard 2), while the rest are all Olifant 1b (105mm with advanced fire control and additional armour), with some Olifant 1a (equivalent of Centurion Mk 5/2) in reserve.

Some good Olifant info here:

link

Since we count the Centurion as WW2:
It was bought in 1958 and served until 2000. According to the website of the Swedish Armour Museum there are cases when grandfather, father and son have all done their mandatory service in Centurions. A good friend of mine did his service in 1991 as a driver. He was not convinced it would be a good thing to be in a Centurion if the Soviets ever came.

Thomas Nissvik

When I was in the (British) Army, I was told by a grizzled old sergeant that the best tank to be in when the Russians attacked was the Chieftain. He went on to explain that this is because it would break down en route to the battlefield.

Here's the Olifant 2:

link

Frontovik and R Mark Davies are right. It was a counterweight. But only if the tank was armed with the shorter M2 75mm gun. The longer M3 75mm gun in later models did not require a counterweight to be compatible with the gyrostabilizer. Another counterweight was also placed under the barrel on the gun mantlet for the M6 37mm gun. Robert

M3 Lee/Grant Medium Tank 1941-45 By Steven J. Zaloga, Hugh Johnson
link

And lets not forget the ones used in the entertainment industries. The M3 Lee "Lulubelle" used in Spielberg's "1941". Or the Shermans and M3 halftracks in "Kelly's Heroes".And the Sherman used in "Tank!".Then the Stugs being used in the Finnish movies "Etulinjan edessä" and "Tali-Ihantala".Also the Stug III used in the beginning of "The Eagle has Landed". Not to mention the famous T-34/Tigers LOL. Just to name a few :). Robert

I don't know if they're still running, but there used to be amphibious ferries on the Thames made from old DUKW hulls.

'Tank!'?

Are you telling me that there was a film version of Ken Tout's book?!

Re 'Duck Tours' – yes, they're still running (and now also in many other sities around the world).

LOL Sorry. I meant "Tank". The one with James Garner from 1984. I don't know why I added the "!" LOL. Then there were the Shermans used in Audie Murphy's "To Hell and Back". I also forgot the heavily modified M5A1 Stuart used in "Tank Girl". The M-24s in "Battle of the Bulge". And of course in the Finnish movie Tali-Ihantalia T-34s.In "The Tanks Are Coming" M-36s were used.
Robert

From Wiki. With a grain of salt LOL.

M24 Chaffees are featured in:

1965 film Battle of the Bulge – to portray American M-4 Sherman tanks.
The Bridge at Remagen – where their portrayal is historically accurate.
20,000,000 Miles to Earth- Italian Army variants
The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951 film).
Jonny Quest as an animated tank in the opening credits(from "The Robot Spy" episode)
several Godzilla movies as part of the Japanese army.
Don Camillo e l'onorevole Peppone, although purported to be a long abandoned German tank, the vicar, Don Camillo, accidentally firing a main round and destroying the local monument to peace.[[1]]
In the movie Shoot 'Em Up
In the movie Patton as US and British tanks
link

Robert

R Mark Davies

Despite its modern appearance, I think the Olifant 2 is still essentially a Centurion with a new turret? (and armour and engine…)

It seems that just about the only Centurion bit left on the Olifant 2 is the hull itself – virtually everything else has changed, including the suspension.

Re the Chieftain – in its early days it was dogged by reliability problems and was hated compared to the Cent. However, by the late 1980s the problems had all been sorted out and the Chieftain was loved. It's the same with virtually any new bit of kit.

R Mark Davies

Agreed re. the Olifant – though it does make me wonder what the point is – why not just start again with a new model… it's a bit like Trigger from 'Only Fools and Horses' proudly claiming to have had the same brush for 40 years – 'just three new heads and five new handles'.

Agreed with the point about every single new piece of kit ever issued in any army.

While browsing for something else i came across a reference to the Royal marines still having 4 DUKWs for training purposes.

I had a quick look and can't find any actual evidence so I doubt this is true. Especially as they could be using newer Stalwarts.

Mind you I'd be interested how these stories start…..

Bulldog,

The development of the Olifant began when apartheid was still alive and well, with the associated UN arms embargos on South Africa. In the late 70s and early 80s, South Africa suddenly found itself fighting a war with Angola, which was receiving large quantities of modern Soviet equipment. Consequently they had to develop their own defence industry and modernise what they had (with a little covert help from Israel).

The Olifant was developed up to 1b standard before arms embargos had been lifted and a lot of the development for Olifant 2 had already been done as well. I suppose therefore, that it made economic sense to continue that project through to completion.

Now I have seen the pics of some of the T-34s and other tanks that have had this happen to them before. What a sad end to this vehicles :(. Robert

link
radio.cz/en/article/66274
link

R Mark Davies

Economic sense is not a common thing in the 'new' South Africa as far as defence procurement goes, but I take your point!
I actually saw three Olifants on transporters a few weeks ago – they are impressive looking beasts despite their age and, I would suggest, more than a match for anything else on the continent.
I did recently read a report (I can't remember where) which lambasted the SA army's state of readiness, however – it claimed that only a tiny percentage of their AFVs were serviceable and I imagine 50+ year old tanks must be amoung the hardest to keep running.

From what I have read the SU100 was still in Vietnamese service as of 2006. One was used in the movie " The Misfit Brigade" where it was portrayed as a German tank.

Robert

Some nice shots of some Syrian SU100s during the '67 War here.

link

A couple more.

North Korea
SU-85
SU-76m

Vietnam
SU-85

Also used by Egypt. T-34/100. An Egyptian T-34/85 turned into a tank destroyer by adding a Soviet BS-3 100mm gun to it. Robert

"collar" around the muzzle of the 75mm gun

To add what to what JOhn mentioned (this is from Hunnicutt's Sherman), mid or late production (can't recall) Lee/Grants had a gyrostabilizer for the hull 75mm which was designed for the M3 75mm (the one on the Sherman). Where the stabilizer was on Lee/grants equipped with the shorter M2 75mm, a counterweight was necessary to make up for the difference in weight.
--
Tim

Volkswagon Beetles.

Tim. I also mentioned the counterweight on the 37mm gun too in my previous post above :). Robert

"Frontovik and R Mark Davies are right. It was a counterweight. But only if the tank was armed with the shorter M2 75mm gun. The longer M3 75mm gun in later models did not require a counterweight to be compatible with the gyrostabilizer. Another counterweight was also placed under the barrel on the gun mantlet for the M6 37mm gun. Robert

M3 Lee/Grant Medium Tank 1941-45 By Steven J. Zaloga, Hugh Johnson "

link

Kaoschallenged -

You should check out the Finnish movie "Winter War" – it features running T-26s, including the flamethrower version (OT-26).

Apparently the Finns never throw away anything.

Thanks Mserafin. There was also in "Force 10 From Navarone" (1978) T-34-85s used as German tanks. And here is another interesting site. Robert

Surviving Panzers website
link

Apparently the Finns never throw away anything.

True, but lots of the old stuff ends up being sold to the private collectors eventually.

Last year or so there was a bunch of old tanks auctioned away by the Finnish government (including StuGs in very bad repair, Comets, and possibly some other stuff).

One of the ex-Syrian PzK IV's is on display in the tank museum in Danville, VA. It was captured by Isreal and they traded it to the museum for a Stuart!

And who could forget all the WWII vehicles used in a "Bridge Too Far". Especially the Shermans,M-24 and M3 halftracks. Too bad they used Leopard 1 tanks of the Dutch Army for the German tanks. Robert

Two more. A Pz.Kw. IV Ausf. J in the Finnish movie "Unknown Soldier". And IIRC the Cromwells in "Band of Brothers". Robert

The Osprey book on the 18 is actually titled "M18 Hellcat Tank Destoyer 1943-97."
It includes color artoerk of the M18 in Bosnia in 1995.

Too bad they used Leopard 1 tanks of the Dutch Army for the German tanks.

At least they tried to dress it up as something, though. I assume it was meant to be a Panther?
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Tim

"At least they tried to dress it up as something, though. I assume it was meant to be a Panther?"

LOL I would hope so. Not very convincing but at least it was German LOL. Hers another siting :). A Jagdpanzer IV L/70 was used in the 1999 low budget UK film "Steel Tempest." Robert

Two of the three Band of Brothers Cromwells were former Finnish Charioteer tank destroyers (Cromwell hull with open 20pdr turret), with the Charioteer turrets removed and Cromwell turrets re-installed. The other one was actually a Centaur, but visually indistinguishable from a Cromwell.

I forgot the Remake of "Sahara" that was almost a scene by scene copy of the original with James Belushi In the Bogart role. It used an M3 Lee too. Robert