"Sabretache - what's it for?" Topic

Assembling some HLBS Hussars and one being short a sabretache requiring sending for a replacement got me to thinking about it and realised I've no idea what it was used for. By Napoleonic times it seems to be a fashion accessory which no well dressed Hussar should be without, but presumably it had a function at some point. What did they carry in them?

You store a bricole in it.

Rich

The hussar uniform was generally tight and had no pockets so the sabretache was used for maps, pen and paper, handkerchief, cheese sandwiches, keys, orders from the general, etc., etc.!

HTH

David
nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com

The hussar uniform was generally tight and had no pockets so the sabretache was used for maps, pen and paper, handerchief, cheese sandwiches, keys, orders from the general, etc., etc.!

Yes assumed it would be used for the usual sort of stuff soldiers have in their kitbags. Just wondered if it had an official function when originally introduced. After all a saddle bag would seem to be more utilitarian.

After all a saddle bag would seem to be more utilitarian.

Which is precisely why you have a sabretache – hussar and utilitarian are not terms which belong together…. ;-) It's part functional, and firmly part fashion accessory….

Even Hussars sometimes get off their horses, so a saddlebag is not always available.

It had a hard back also (relatively hard) so that it could be used to draw maps and dispositions on for scouts.

Hussars did usually have saddlebags also (ignoring the portmanteau as it was too hard to keep properly shaped and it could be stolen with a few flicks of a knife).

Things such as pipes could also be stored in the headress.

I imagine that it would have been both bad form (unsightly) and uncomfortable to have a bulging sabretache banging around your knees.

As far as I can tell from all I've read, it was simply a pouch or pocket for the smaller items a soldier would want on him – the saddle bag would be for heavier and bigger stuff (looted gold and silver items from churches, that sort of thing… ;-)).

David
nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com

P.S I see that while I've been writing this there's been a flurry of other responses…

Well,

The saddle bags were not that big to begin with, and were intended NOT for the trooper, but for the horse.

Saddlebags were used to store spare horse shoes and nails, a hoof pick, piquet pin and line, curry brush and comb, etc. Items needed to keep the horse in good trim.

The valise or portmanteau would be used for the soldier's excess gear, especially his personal hygiene items, plate cup and spoon, spare clothing, etc.

respects,

So it's a purse ?

Gracias,

Glenn

More of a handbag, but yes….

Its European

"Man-purse" according to Seinfeldese.

Think of it as a grab-bag for that handy plunder you didn't want your lieutenant to notice

You keep your Blackberry in it.

Yes, it's a purse. But, a very manly one.
This is what happens when one insults the sabretache of another Hussar's regiment:
YouTube link

Its my bag, baby!

My understanding was that Hussars being light cavalry on scouting and outpost duties would keep paper and pencil materials in it and use it for writing a message to superiors.

My understanding was that Hussars being light cavalry on scouting and outpost duties would keep paper and pencil materials in it and use it for writing a message to superiors. Eventually it became a fashionable accessory to the uniform.

Its a purse. Justify it all you like.

Its still a purse.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. At least it isn't a paunch pouch.

The sabretache goes way back to the Magyars who invaded the area we now call Hungary – then the sabretache was a hold all purse which you stowed a few coins in and, most importantly, your fire lighting gear. At that time they were only 4-6 inches (100-150mm) high and had a decorated metal face plate if you were well off.

As it remained part of everyday dress for the mounted Hungarian, and Hungarians made the first & flashest Hussars, the sabretache became de rigeur for light cavalry.

The sabtretache grew in size, so that by the Peninsular campain, British & French light cavalry were able to carry a couple of bottles of wine or a chook stuffed in them.

Its a MANBAG!

I believe that the item called a 'purse' in America is actually a handbag. With the increase in the apparant need of some males to carry stuff around in a bag, a new term has entered the language – manbag.

Those hussars were way ahead of their time!

P.S. If anyone is interested or confused, a purse in Britain is a small bag women keep their cash in. It is normally carried in their handbag.

I presume the reason it dangles on long straps is to allow free movement in the saddle. Any sizable bag strapped to the side on a belt would hinder bending to that side. However there is a risk of catching it on something as you a riding leading to its loss or the rider being pulled from the saddle. No doubt something strapped to the back would have been more practical, but less flashy.

Also the "writing on it" factor – the side position and long straps mean you can get it in front of you for scribbling.

Notice the derivation of the term:

"sabre" + "tache"

sabre: (obviously) sword
tache: from the French, pocket

Nothing wrong with a Manbag, I have several in various different sizes and configurations. My 'outdoor survival' one has my prismatic compass and whistle permanently in it.

Nice to know they have such a distinguished lineage.

Hmmmmmmmmmm
C'mon Mike geroff, we all know that a tache is something hairy that grows under your nose!

Serves essentially the same function as the Highlander's sporran. What began as a purely functional item became ever more decorative.

Bill

So I'm given to understand from this that Cousin Jonathan refers to a handbag as a "purse?"

So what do they call the thing that we call a purse?
(A small bag for keeping money in, the lady equivalent of a wallet.)

[So what do they call the thing that we call a purse?
(A small bag for keeping money in, the lady equivalent of a wallet.)]

My experience is these small coin/money holding bags could also be called a purse, but my wife calls her's a wallet. Since this is such a serious and important subject I'll survey the American ladies at work on this today and get back to all of you.

Many of the ladies over here call that thing a "coin purse" or a "wallet", but many also simply call the receptacle of the money "husband" or simply "hey you".

Bill

Does the sabretache need to match the boots? It does not seem to in the pictures I see, but I thought I would bring it up, just in case. I am not very fashion oriented.

Just more (previously functional) decorative Hussar fluff. More hard stuff to paint !!

It must be very confusing living in America.
I mean, you have to remember to call football "soccer", handbags "purses" with all the consequent confusion on what you then call a purse.
Then there's the spelling. Dropping all those "u"s out of colour, armour and swapping "z" for "s" all over the language.
Tricky business.
Much easier to stick with english.
;^)

Not to mention having to remember to not laugh like a schoolboy when someone says 'fanny'!

As promised I've interviewed several American women.

The larger bag with straps was called a purse by all but one of the American women. The exception was a woman who explained her vocabulary would be very different from other Americans because she was 'Country' (she said 'Country' with a drawl to indicate her background was rural and unusually unsophisticated). She also said she calls it a purse on occasion.

The smaller containment vessel carried inside the purse was called 'wallet' by all the American women.

So can we call that thing Tinky-Winky carries on Teletubbies a plain Sabretache?

As I remember the evolution of the "manbag" in the 80's-90's, 1st came butt-pouches or belly-bags which were zippered pouches on a "1-size-fits-all" belt. These were needed since many men wore jogging suits & sweatpants rather than slacks or jeans (not necessarily men who exercised any at all) as casual wear when shopping at the mall, observing sporting events, at the movies, etc. This apparel lacked functional pockets so the belted pouch carried wallet, keys, smokes & lighter, sunglasses, small cal handgun-whatever could fit into a space about the size of 2 manly fists. Along came over-sized wallets, pagers, cellphones (not OST communicator-sized cells, either), dayplanners & bottled water (gotta keep hydrated). Even if you were wearing pants & a jacket, you couldn't get everything needed for trekking thru the urban jungle in your available pockets w/o unsightly bulges (looking good is as important to Yups as it was to Hussars). Hence the "manbag"--a bag w/a shoulder strap that's large enough for all the above + Blackberry, IPod, teabags, herbs & vitamins, Rolodex, GPS, Desert Eagle + spare clip, Masonic regalia, etc.: a purse to Americans, a handbag to British.
A sabretache by any other name is just as stuffed.

"The smaller containment vessel carried inside the purse was called 'wallet' by all the American women."

I interviewed one British woman, the large object is referred to as a 'bag', frequently a 'lovely bag' and very rarely 'the lovely bag you bought me'.

The smaller object contained therein and stuffed with money, credit cards etc was called a 'purse'.

In this country, only men have wallets. To be carried in their manbags;-)

You also see the term "clutch purse" used in store ads for a women's wallet in the US. But to call a sabretache a purse is just plain wrong. It's clearly the pre-21st century version of the laptop case, for the hussar. We have to recall that soldiers didn't always have PCs. ;)

Rick

After some thought, I think the best word to describe the function of Sabretache to Americans is 'haversack'. You could call it a 'fancy haversack' or perhaps a 'European haversack' to account for the decorative nature. Purse, or man-bag is a lot funnier!

It is not restricted to Hussars, Prussian cuirassiers in the 7YW and up to 1807 did carry them for example as well.

I do a bit of fiction writing with a Hussar character and he always becomes a bit farcical when he tries a ground pursuit while still decked out for riding.

Imagine a Hussar sprinting along with sabretache, scabbard, and pelisse all bumping along clumsily. He'd gather his accoutrements up like a lady gathers her skirts. His cadenettes would flop about like pigtails and one hand might be reserved for keeping his mirliton pressed down onto his skull.

As Churchill said, when referring to the Americans versus English: "Two nations separated by a common language."

Just remember that when in Britain, a cookie is a biscuit, and a biscuit is a bap. Americans always get blank stares when ordering "biscuits and gravy" for breakfast. Of course, Americans are known to return the blank stare when asked if they'd like "spotted dick" for desert.

respects,

TKindred
(member, "Pint's a pound, the world around" club.)

Much easier to stick with english.

Or even English.

My wife calls the large thing in which she stuffs her entire kit a 'purse," or sometimes a 'handbag,' and the smaller thing into which she stuffs my credit cards, cash and checkbook a 'wallet.'

I think the main difference between a purse and a handbag (in America, at any rate) is a fancy name and $300. USD

TKindred, in the part of the UK where I live, bap is the name for the kind of buns that McDonalds hamburgers come wrapped in. I don't imagine that's what Americans mean when they say 'biscuit' (though I admit I have no idea what biscuit actually means to an American).

"It must be very confusing living in America."

Yes it is. Up is down, down is up, success is evil, failure is rewarded, right is wrong…it's a strange place.

A North American "biscuit" is a member of the family of "quick breads" that include cornbread and soda bread as well. Typically made with baking soda as a leavening agnet instead of yeast, it is similar to the English scone or Shetland Isles bannock. Go to the Wiki entry here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscuit

Then select the sub-link for "Biscuits In Noth American Usage" and you will see a picture of this wonderful concoction being served with honey (one of the best ways to consume them, although butter and jam are acceptable as well our Southern American favorite, biscuits with white gravy, preferably seasoned with ground breakfast sausage).

Although biscuits are popular all over the United States, they are extremely popular in the Midwestern, Southern and Western parts of the country because the early settlers, pioneers, trappers, soldiers and cowboys could easily pack the necessary dry ingrediants to make them and they could be baked in a Dutch Oven over the coals of a campfire.

There are many authenticated early fur-trade era, pioneer and western letters and documents detailing this and some camp cooks were highly-praised for their ability to make light, fluffy biscuits over an open campfire, and many an early cook took great pride in their ability to make them. Remember, the alternative was a hardtack "cracker" or, at least in the Southwest, the Mexican tortilla (an unleavened flatbread similar to a pita made from either flour or corn meal masa.

Also, most Southern girls of my Wife's generation (and many men as well) learned to make biscuits from their Grandmother's, then degenerated with age to buying them at McDonald's or popping them out of a can. We now have an entire generation that think "good biscuits" are the ones from fast food chains versus the canned ones. In my own family, if anyone makes biscuits from "scratch", its me (I learned from my Mother and my Wife's Grandmother both), and I can make them over a campfire, although the oven in my air-conditioned house is usually preferable in Texas" 100+ degree heat. In the winter though, especially in a hunting camp accompanied by a stew made from the "catch of the day", nothing beats a fresh-baked camp biscuit to "sop" up the gravy.

Today's Biscuit History Lesson brought to you by Bill

Why, Bill!

Yes indeed! I make drop biscuits at least once a week. Basically, instead of making a stiff dough, rolling it out, cutting it and baking, you make a slightly more moist dough, and then drop large spoonfuls of it onto a baking sheet and then bake them.

One other great idea is to drop spoonfuls of them into a pot of stew about 10 minutes before it's due to come off the heat, cover, and let the biscuits form a layer over the top. It's wicked good, yessah!

And nothing beats biscuits and sausage gravy with eggs and coffee for breakfast. heck, anytime, really :)

Biscuits and gravy….probably the most disappointing meal I ate in my brief holidays in America!!

I wouldn't go up to a burly hussar and call his sabreteche a handbag!!

They often had pigtails aswell!!

hussarbob1746.webs.com

Rob,

If the "biscuits and gravy" were disappointing, then you obviously were eating at the wrong place :)

Next time you come over the pond, give me a shout. I'll set you right about country foods.

Respects,