"Carrier Operations" Topic

I am trying to compile a list of non-carrier capable aircraft operating (either taking off or landing) on aircraft carriers e.g. the P40s in Operation Torch; the Hurricanes in Norway etc.
Any help, especially with references would be greatly appreciated and I will of course post the findings.
By the way I am not only interested in WWII but in all periods.
Regards
Gerry McGinty

Well, there were those pesky B-25's launched against Japan.

My memory might be fuzzy but didn't the US ferry some Spitfires for the British to Malta on a carrier?

Of course, there were the B-25's in the Dolittle raid.

-Will

Well the US navy was sure for a long time that F4U's couldn't operate off carriers…

P-47

"On 23 June Manila Bay came under enemy air attack during refueling operations east of Saipan. Two fighter bombers attacked her from dead ahead, dropping four bombs which exploded wide to port. Intense anti-aircraft fire suppressed further attacks; and, as a precautionary and rather unusual move which Admiral Spruance later characterized as "commendable initiative", Manila Bay launched four of the Army P-47's she was ferrying to fly protective CAP until radar screens were clear of contacts"

USS Manila Bay (CVE-61 – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Also the carrier-borne delivery and launching of two deck loads of razorback Thunderbolts from the 318th FG from the escort carriers USS Manila Bay and Natoma Bay.

After loading 37 Thunderbolt (P–47D) fighters of the 7th Air Force, Natoma Bay departed Pearl Harbor 5 June en route to the Marianas. Steaming via Eniwetok, she arrived off Saipan 19 June and was ordered to retire eastward until the Battle of the Philippine Sea was decided. On the 22nd she steamed westward and commenced catapulting the Army planes toward their destination, Aslito Air Field, Saipan. She dispatched 25 on the 22nd and the remainder early on the 23rd, then retired to a refueling area 45 miles east of Saipan.

There the formation came under enemy air attack. Intensive anti-aircraft fire prevented damage to the main targets, Natoma Bay and Manila Bay. The latter ship, with Army fighters still on board, then catapulted those aircraft to provide protective CAP until the radar screens were clear of contacts.

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Air Corps footage of P-47 Thunderbolts making their way to Saipan in June 1944 on board a carrier.
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"My memory might be fuzzy but didn't the US ferry some Spitfires for the British to Malta on a carrier?"

Yep. The USS Wasp in April of 42. Here are some photos of them.
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Though not flown onto or off as far as I know the HMS Reaper in 1945 did ferry an large interesting load of captured German aircraft and a P-51 to New Jersey.

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The Brits ferried quite a few fighters to Malta from carriers – 300 Hurricanes in 1941, and Spitfires too after this.

HMS Eagle carried out a large number of ferry missions to Malta.

Incidentally, during the joint Wasp/Eagle mission in May 1942 one of the Spitfire pilots accidentally dumped his auxiliary tank. It was against orders for the Spitfires to try and land back on the carriers, but he gave it a go and succeeded in landing back on Wasp. Whether it could have been done on the Eagle's smaller flight deck, I have no idea.

"Significantly, on 11 October 1940, the 8th Pursuit Group participated in a test designed to compare the take-off runs of standard Navy and Army aircraft. On that day, 24 P-40s from the 8th Pursuit Group launched from the USS Wasp, an aircraft carrier, and returned to Langley Field. That experiment, the first time that Army planes had flown from a Navy carrier, foreshadowed the use of the ship in the ferry role that it performed admirably in World War II."

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Also theUSS Wasp delivered USAAF P-40s to Iceland on 6 August 1941.

Taking off is one thing… landing is a whole different ball game.

- The army aircraft were not equipped with arrester hooks, which would have made stopping dicey at best

- Even if they could have been equipped with hooks, their airframes would probably not have been able to stand the force of catching a wire. Navy planes were often built stronger for that reason.

- Army pilots were not trained to drop on a pitching, 800" deck. It is possible they could not even hit the deck much less land on it. Though fictional, there is a good story on this in a novel called "Space". At one point in the novel (set during the 50's) a Navy pilot and his aircraft are temporarily stationed at an Airforce base. After enduring endless ribbing and jokes about how bulky, clumsy and heavy his navy fighter is, the Navy pilot buys a gallon of paint and paints a 900' x 100' box on the base runway. Naturally this gets the curiosity of the AF pilots who come out to watch. The Navy pilot then climbs into his fighter, takes off, circles the base, and comes in and thumps his fighter down neatly in the painted box, coming to a stop near the end. He then taxis off. Returning on foot, he hammers a spike into the grass near the box, tapes a $100 USD dollar bill to the spike, and says "That goes to the first one of you that can land in and stop in the box".

Naturally all the AF pilots take to the air, and the Navy pilot spends an enjoyable afternoon in a lawn chair, watching the AF pilots miss the box time after time, sometimes by thousands of feet.

There was also a thread about two years back where someone remembered a book that mentioned that a number of Beaufighters were flown off a British carrier once during the Med campaign, but no-one was able to come up with a source on that one.

I also have this dim dark memory that Westland Lyslanders were flown off once also. Could be wrong though.

I did like the story and photos of the Naval P-51 tests.

The Naval Mustangs

by Gaëtan Marie

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Another case was the USS Langley CV1 which was sunk carrying P-40's to the Far East.

Terry

A carrier (escort, IIRC) ferried P-40's to North Africa
in support of Torch.

A bit OT, but artillery spotter aircraft (Stinson's ?)
were operated (launch *and* recovery) from specially
fitted LST's…

A bit OT, but artillery spotter aircraft (Stinson's ?)
were operated (launch *and* recovery) from specially
fitted LST's…

Yeah… but there you've got a case of a 2000 lb plane with a 20-30 mph landing speed compared to 8000 lbs and 70mph+ for a Wildcat/Dauntless or 100+ for a P47/P51. Hard to miss anything at 20mph. Sounds like fun though.

Since interested in not only WWII then my nomination not only for post WWII but for the all time strange deployment of non-carrier aircraft to a carrier was basing U2s on carriers!
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They were modified after tests so not sure if it counts but I think it should. And besides remember seeing pictures of this and talk about bizarre!

A DC7 off the Canadian carrier HMCS Jean Chretien, that's what the picture shows !!

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That's not a DC7 – that's a good old Vickers Viscount!
Seriously guys great answers – keep them coming!!!

Regards
Gerry McGinty

Well, lets not forget the C-130 Hercules on a CV.

YouTube link

Oh, and of course there were the CAM ships – one-way only! Do these count as 'carriers'?!

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"PBH-1H 43-4700 (BuNo 35277) was modified for aircraft carrier catapult launch and arrest retrievals. The first landings and catapult takeoffs took place aboard the USS Shangri La (CV-38) on November 15, 1944. Although the experiment was successful, no further work on a carrier-based Mitchell took place since American advances in the Pacific made such an aircraft unnecessary."
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Robert

Photo
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CVE USS Bogue was used to ferry P-47s and P-51s to the UK.
Robert

Vultee Vengeance dive bombers were ferried to the far East on carriers, also the Hurricanes on HMS Glorious were actually landed--A miracle that was somewhat ruined by the Scharnhorst and Gniesenau a day later…
I am sure I have seen pics of a Navalised Mosquito

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned the Japanese Akitsu Maru class and the Kumano Maru.

These were designed to carry Japanese Army aircraft and fly them off.

The Kumano Maru could even land them on. She carried between 8 and 37 depending on type and role. If carrying only 8 they could operate in support. Like the others she also carried landing craft and troops, which allowed her to operate in a similar manner to US Amphibious support ships of today. She was not completed in time to carry out any actual operations of that kind and merely transported troops home during the post war period.

The first group also carried a mix of aircraft and landing craft. However in their case the aircraft could only be flown off to land on a suitable area. These ships were in service from 1941/42 and were both sunk in 1944. Akitsu Maru was not sunk until November of 1944 at which time plans were underway to extend her flight deck area so she could land army aircraft on.

All these vessels were operated by the Japanese Imperial ARMY not the navy. There was of course always a lot of rivalry between those services and these ships are an example of the Army deciding to go its own way on a project, just as they did with supply submarines. There were several other ships of a type known to the USN as Landing Ship Dock, but these were only able to transport aircraft, not fly them off or land them on.

Another one that comes to mind would be the US LST aircraft carriers. These operated the small army high wing light aircraft which I think were known as 'Bird dogs'???

Yes, Mal, I mentioned those upthread. Stinson L-20's,
if I remember correctly.

The amazing part to me was that the a/c actually had to
'hook on' to an apparatus on the LST to be 'safely
landed.'

The carrier Ryûhô was ferrying 20 light bombers with pilots and crews in Dec of 42 to Truk.

"Yes, Mal, I mentioned those upthread. Stinson L-20's,
if I remember correctly."

Ohhhh so you did!
Rather an unusual thing though.

"LST-386 had an improvised "flight deck" installed in 1943 and flew off four such planes during the landing on Sicily. Later LST modifications, like this one, could carry up to 10 planes and supported the Anzio landing and the invasion of southern France. During 1944, LST-776 evaluated an experimental catapult for launching light planes, as well as Brodie gear. In this system, a cable was stretched between booms to one side of the ship, and planes were launched from a quick-release trolley. LST-776 operated Marine OY-1's over Iwo Jima and Army L-4's at Okinawa. Helicopters began to operate from LST decks in 1949 as they continue to do today."

With Photo
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Robert

Some info about the "Brodie Device".

The Secret Weapon of the Pacific War
by Irwin J. Kappes
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Robert

L-Birds and the Brodie Device
pipercubforum.com/lbird.htm

Robert

Since you mention periods other than WWII…..lets go early.

Curtiss Pusher – that was Ely, since it was experimental it could hardly be considered carrier capable any more than any land based aircraft that successfully operated.

Sopwith Pup was the first to land on a moving ships deck and as a first it kinda fits the above point.

Sopwith Camels were operated from carriers in WWI – although the use of the Camels shows the main problem – landing (or not in the case of Camels from HMS Furious).

one of the spitfires launched from the Wasp droped his belly tank right after take off and elected to try to land back on the Wasp, He made it with about 3 feet to spare as he had no arrestor gear on his spitfire.

i've heard that before, wonder where?

It's really only the heavier aircraft that NEED arrestor hooks: A P51 could probably land on an 800' carrier with a 30kt 'headwind', but he wouldn't have much deck left at the end of the landing.

The C130 can cheat with the reversing props.

I've also heard that you could land a C5 or C17 on a Nimitz-class… once.

Also you have RAF Harriers in the Falklands…Also I understand quite a few IJN planes "landed" on USn carriers in the latter part of WW2!!!

Bren guns were operated from carriers.

and Boyes anti-tank rifles, and Vickers guns…I found a great photo the other day of a machine gun carrier in Normandy armed with a Browning .50 calibre which I thought was quite exciting. (the need to get out more is obvious).
I was fooled as well Don…I looked at this thread hoping for some arcane information on REAL carriers…only to find a lot of stuff about things that only have letters and numbers rather than names and fly about over the sea …..sigh

Further to the Sea Harriers. I beleive they have the capability to land on Spanish Merchant ships! Then get classed as "salvage". Cheeky s

And LMAO @Don

Wannes writes:

One for your list: Bird dog landing on a carrier, off Vietnam – link

IIRC Eric 'Winkle' Brown flew Mosquitos both on and off carriers, as well as an Airacobra Mk 1 along with a range of other unusual types. He was a test pilot though.

C-130 carrier trials link-

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