"Tank ID from Movie Defiance" Topic

I watched the DVD of the film Defiance last evening. I thought the movie was rather good. It was very interesting to see a different perspective on this aspect of the Eastern Front in WWII.

Toward the end of the movie, the Bielski Otriad (Partizan Group) has "escaped" across a swamp and it attacked by what appears to be an augmented platoon of German infantry supported by a single PzKw III. But I really looked at it closely (paused the DVD) and realized that there is no way it could have been one simply due to the configuration of the ground bogie wheels and the forward drive sprocket.

If you have seen the movie, can you identify what tank they did use as the "stand in" for the venerable PzKw III?

Thanks in advance.

Andy Welkley
"Your Phrendlee Hevy Phyzx T-chrr"

I watched the movie this weekend too. I thought it was a PzIII but then the gun mantle was off a bit, so I thought it was an early IV.

I'd like to know too.

I thought the film was pretty good as well.

Woops, I guess you can't do the standard "formating" shortcuts in the Title/Subject Lines.

Sorry about that

Andy W. YPHPT

Yes, 45th,

The Gun Mantle also got me too. The bore seemed to be a 50mm. So, I don't know as that would be a PzKw IV, and was the PzKw IV even in service early in '42 yet?

Why didn't they just go and "rent" one of the tanks from Bovington's? Doesn't that museum have a PzKw III? I know they have a Tiger…but then that would have been Totally Inappropriate for time and supporting a small infantry assault! LOL.

Andy W. YPHPT

I think it is intended to be a Pz III with a 50mm but is not a perfect mock up.

It couldn't have been a iv, it had 6 bogies per side.

I concluded it was a iii, Unless they had some sort of bodge – job like a retrofitted Stug (unlikely).

Pat

"The German tank which appears near the end of the film is a replica of a Panzer III which was created by modifying a Swiss Panzer 61 tank. It was one of two such vehicles previously used in Enemy at the Gates (2001)."

imdb.com/title/tt1034303

"Bovington's"? Never heard of a rental outfit named Bovington's…

Thanks Allen,

As always, our living encyclopedia of where to go to find info on everything WWII.

I was referring to the tank museum in the U.K. I believe it is Bovington's Tank Museum, and they have a "fair" every year where they fire up the various mobile units and drive them around the grounds. I am not sure, but I think they have one of the most complete collections of armor from WWII of any museum in the world.

Andy Welkley
"Your Phrendlee Hevy Phyzx T-chrr"

I was going to suggest the 'Enemy at the Gates' Pz IIIs as well.

Bovington Tankfest was this weekend, but I don't think they rent out their vehicles to film companies. Bovington is a place, home of the Royal Tank Corps.

tankmuseum.org/home

BTW, how's the film?. Is it worth the rental?.

It's a good film, definitely worth a rental.

I thought it was a good film. A colleague who has read a somewhat on the subject thought it was reasonably accurate.

Bovington's is the tank subdivision of Hertz Van Rental.

I've always quite fancied renting a Conqueror tank for a weekend bender…..

Bovington Tankfest was this weekend, but I don't think they rent out their vehicles to film companies. Bovington is a place, home of the Royal Tank Corps.

And very good it was too. They had the Tiger I out and the Panzer III, plus loads of allied kit. My favourite being the little Matilda I.

Those were Pz 61s??? I think that's the coolest bit of movie trivia I've heard in a while. Anyone do them in 15mm and/or 6mm?

Damon.

I am familiar with Bovington, just not the concept that a "Bovington's" would rent out tanks.

After the first Gulf War, I took our warrant officer (all-source intel tech) and a couple of intel analysts (96B30) there. We had to point out that the glass display case with detritus from Iraqi veicles and positions included the glass ampoules of live agent from a Soviet chemical detection kit.

We suggested that live nerve agent might not be the best thing to have in the case, on the freak chance that someone stumbled into it and broke it. Never been back to see if they took our advice…

Then we headed down the road to see where Lawrence wiped out.

Allen

Oh, yes: the curator's response was, "Oh, but we had everything checked for contamination, and it all passed."

Our's was, "Of course the hemorrhaging ampoules are sealed NOW! The problem arises if they break!"

No phlebotomizing wonder they have light blue in their Caunter.

Allen

AE..they had live agent in their Chem Detection kits? Good lord!

Makes it easy to test whether the kit is working or not…

Griefbringer

I remember watching an episode of Hogan's Heroes in which the German "Tiger" tank was actually an American M-7 Priest.

Hollywood got it right for once !
Only an expert would have caught that minor variation. :-)

"AE..they had live agent in their Chem Detection kits? Good lord!"

Yes, the live agent was necessary to caibrate the detector, if it ever had to be used. As Grief says…

Allen

just watched the movie--> very good in my opinon.
I agree, Hollywood did get it right; only problem was hearing Daniel Craig's British accent!

regards,
John

I liked it – but I kept expecting the littlest Bielski to start dancing….

Pat

Yes, the live agent was necessary to caibrate the detector, if it ever had to be used.

It will also provide a fine opportunity to test the NBC-gear used by the detector crew…

Griefbringer

My doubts about the movie hover around the commitment of German armor to anti partisan sweeps. German units committed to anti partisan were generally class B units of men unfit for front line duty. Police Divisions with fit men were organized for anti parisan role, but at least one Police Division (4th SS Police Div)was thrown into the line in the Leningrad area. I don't want to say a partisan never saw a tank, but partisans hung around the forests a lot, not a place for a tank. I did some head scratching on that scene in the film.

I watched many of the extras on the DVD afterward. I would really like to see Bielski's grand-daughter's documentary on her family. In the interviews with the Sons and Daughter of Tuvia and Zuz Bielski you could here a very similar statement that many have when they speak with war veterans. It is only through coaxing that many veterans will fully open up about their experiences.

I found it very interesting that the sons and daughter didn't realize their fathers and mothers were "famous" and that all their visitors weren't "family" until much later in life.

I kind of worried about the tank in the end of the movie too, but I sort of put it down to "What's a WWII movie without a tank in it?"

Andy Welkley
"Your PHrendlee Hevy Phzyx T-chrr"

One might review the conduct of anti-partisan operations in which regular Heer formations (including Panzer divisions) were used:

link

Even in anti-Partisan units, tanks were often used. Typically they were older machines like the 38(t), II's or III's, or older tanks captured from the enemy (such as French tanks. On rail escort missions, trains often carried a modified car to allow the tank to dismount when pursuing partisans. I think the movie-producers could probably be excused for the lack of Panzer H39(f)s laying around…! :)

Damon.

*Zus*

There is a recent book out by Kenneth Slepyan, "Stalin's Guerillas: Soviet Partisans in WWII", c. 2006, University of Kansas Press, 409 pages. It's thorough on the Soviet side of things. Worth mentioning here on this thread.