"Late-19th Century ARMORPLATED ELEPHANTS!" Topic

Okay.

I'll out front admit this is a weird thing/idea, but it came to me in a dream.

The dream can be summed up that somehow, around 1900, the French and Germans were having huge wargames in a hundreds of miles wide arena, and somehow 1990's rednecks showed up on hills overlooking it in pickups to watch it. The Germans ran the concessions stands and the French were charing the $5 USD admission fee…….

needless to say *As everyone backs away from the weirdo*.

It sorta revolved around long columns of irregular, native, and regular troops. No artillery. Only rifles, pistols, machine guns and light quick-firers, 37MM Pom-Pom's and the ultra-light cannons.

The "Tanks" were elephants adorned in armor-plates. Thick enough to stop rifle fire, and most machine gun fire. Light cannonry and machine guns were mounted on some of their backs,etc.

Now I have a big urge to buy colonial French and German troops and make a VSF 1900's ultra-small conflict. Something along the lines of this: link

It may be awhile, as the funds I had set aside for Pulp Mini's had to get used on something else, and they'll still come first. But I may keep an eye out, maybe get some suitable plastics and toy elephants to use (Along with regular stuff).

Not real important, ;-) just something oddball I got to try sometime in the future and thought I'd mention it :D

Ahhh, the Major General's site. Responsible entirely for my original foray in to colonials and then into the madness that is VSF.

Pity it hasn't been updated in 3 years, almost to the date, now. (June 29, 2006)

Good luck with the project, and keep us informed. We need more creative madmen.

Bunnies, you need armored bunnies --like--The blinkin' bunny O' Bunrab !

Funny enough I have entertained this odd idea myself. Elephants as living tanks is a very appealing idea.

Honestly, thinking about it, I get a very strange Miyazaki vibe off of it. It really does sound like something he'd put in one of his anime movies.

-Eli

Indian/Asiatic Rhino's – they come already armoured, no need to rivet anything on.

Friend of mine was the one who donated the elephant mini used in one of the Major General's exploits.. Ripping stuff, hilarious, and pretty much what got me interested in VSF gaming.

The Major Generals site is great! Even un-updated, I skim it every few weeks. Whenever you play games like that (Over-the-top cheesy ones), you can't take stuff very seriously :D

I am trying to decide between 28 or 15MM. If I include many elephants, I think I'd have to go 15MM.

Even though I can't afford the miniatures yet, I think I am gonna start working on a background and the forces. I always enjoy the fluff behind it all almsot as much as the game :D

I found a resin-cast mechanical elephant in 25/28mm scale at a convention out here in the SF Bay area about two years ago. I think it was by the House of Rain guys, but their advert here at TMP has been down for a while. Very nifty steam or clockwork machine with an armored turret type hoodah. Needed a bit of modelling work, but decidely a unique model.

Is this the one you were thinking of komradebob?
link

Lol. neat.

Germans: We ccame with 100 men and 50 cavalry! what do YOU have?

French: 2 Elephants! Armorplated with mounted guns. Shoot flames from their trunks and fart cannonballs!!!!

Germans: Uh..okay. *to men* CHARGE!!! *to themselves* RETREAT!!!!

Okay. Got carried away there ;)

I think I'll keep an eye out. I know I saw a roughly 6" high elephant in Walmart awhile back, but never thought of a use for it. Hopefully I can find some stuff to make do until I can get some good ol potmetals.

Henry V:

Yep, that's her ( although my version is more colorful!).

I kinda wish I'd bought two of them. I painted up a bunch of buglers from the OG NWF Indian infantry set to use as signallers for the machine, figuring it'd be a bit hard to communicate with with the gears grinding and engines pumping.

Sorry to spoil the fun but I'd just hose their lesser armored legs and feet (or belly) and mop up. There's no way to effectively armor the legs from all sides and allow the elephant to live with the heat… unless the attack was in cold weather perhaps.

There's a big weight problem too. Ever seen a horse in full Maxmillian Armor? 1200-1600 lbs with ~200 lbs of armor only 1/8" thick -at most- is good for a few hundred yards. It doesn't cover the whole critter either.

Common boiler iron good enough to stop rifle bullets has to be 3/16 inch thick. The 1st WW1 tanks were made of it. Now consider an elephant's surface area. The German PKW-1a tank is the size of an elephant. It weighed some 5300 KG (~5.5 tons). Drop all the internal parts and turret and half the armor thickness. We get a ton or so. Now an elephant weighs about 4-5 tons. How long would the poor beast be able to stand and walk (let alone charge) with that and 2-3 guys on him who are handling a 1890's water-cooled Maxim w/1000 rounds and cooling tank? Or a 37 MM light cannon… sheeze!

We've all heard it before: "A 5 ounce bird can not carry a 2 pound coconut…" ;^D

Hehhehehe.

So? My current main game uses zeppelins that are armor clothed, carry 2 dozen airplanes and fire off broadsides of 7" cannons!!!! (Well actually the true zeppelin part is indevelopment by fans, but the idea is there).

I don't mind moderate suspended disbelief if it sounds interesting enough.

Another option would be to push it back another 15 years to black-powder only. Decent penetration even then, but the newest steel was able to stop the old lead bullets decently.

You have to armor the elephants, jopower. Otherwise the 'raptor cavalry plays merry hell with them.

Why would it have to be plate armor? I would use chainmail over quilted barding or even rope armor. For that matter, one could envision a quilted barding made of rows of sandbags.

Mahout Mulligan

(I saw a picture once of a British locomotive draped in heavy ropes and cables to provide some extra protection. Whether the locomotive's rope armor ever actually came under fire and how effective it was, I cannot say.)

As for the Major General's site. Personally I think it's required reading for any gaming group. Everyt group should aspire to be as open and friendly and fun as that one.

-Eli

Mulligan,

Could that have been protection against fragments from bombarment while moving through warzones? Though not necessary it would look cool, still.

-Eli

I believe the photo I saw was from the Boer War. I think a the fibrous compressibility of a thick piece of rope or cable would probably be a pretty good bullet stopper, particularly if the rope was backed by or backing something else like a layer of chainmail.

Mulligan

Hmm..

How good would rope be? even tightly pressed? The penetration of the old great-war rifles seems decent (I was using 50's vintage stuff, but it duplicated the spitzers of 1910 or so about).

Anyway. I am getting alot of ideas. Now I am keeping an eye out for a few minis. Decent plastics may be a way to go.

What would be the rough scale of 1/32 and 1/72nd plastics? I looked, and roughly compared, the 1/72nd are probably about 15MM and the 1/32 about 25MM?

1/72 is roughly 20mm and 1/32 is roughly 54mm, if I remember right. 1/32s are about the size of green plastic army men from the dime store.

If you do 1/72, the company HaT is coming out with a considerable number of new colonial sets. The early World War One sets would be great for what your doing also.

I almost went into plastics but changed to 15mm at the last minute.

You can see helpful pictures of the HaT selection here (scroll down until you reach 8179 or so)
hat.com/currentM.html

Edit: I am sure you know about Plastic Soldier Review, but it is worth mentioning anyway.
link

Hey, Great link!!

Looks like a good place to stock up at ;)

Thanks!

And thanks for the size of the mini's. 20MM will be about right.