"Am I cheating? " Topic

No prob til after the first turn…

Sadly, 40K has become a case of the inmates running the asylum. Richard's army was 100% legal by GW's own rules, even for a tournament. His bases were the right size (1"), his models were all GW, etc.

If you follow some of what's come out of the studio lately, it seems some of the longtime hands (like Jervis) have called for using reason in playing your games. Unfortunately, and possibly because of GW marketing targeting the pre teen crowd, the people playing the game have become extremely cutthroat in rules interpretaions. GW does not write that kind of rules.

When I went to the Chicago GT in 2000 and 2001, I had some great friendly games of a game I loved. The stories I hear of tournaments today frequently appall me.

So for once, I don't think we can blame GW, I think we need to blame the players.

Guys a whining jerk. Reminds me of a fellow i player with a long time ago. Kept bugging me to play a "society sanctioned" game of WRG ancients. Wanted to submit it for rankings or whatever. Sure. I told him I only had 890 points of Indians to face his 1000 pts Selucids.
He was good with. Right up until I ripped him top pieces. Then he said it wasn't valid because I didn't use the full 1000.

Just learn from it and find someone else to play with.

I'm unfamiliar with the rules and the figures being discussed, but I recognize a jerk when I hear one being described.

He was accusing you of cheating due to the height of your older figs and different bases -- yet it does not sound like the elevation had anything to do with the outcome of the first turn, that was decisively in your favor.

I know the store you're talking about, the big-backroom comment gave it away. You definitely should have mentioned this incident to the management, because I am certain that they try to maintain a good atmosphere.

"He was good with. Right up until I ripped him top pieces. Then he said it wasn't valid because I didn't use the full 1000."

We really need smileys in here. ROFL.

Honestly people like that arent worth getting mad over,
maybe the people defending him were koolaid drinkers, too.

If you cant handle losing, dont play. You know, I've played real cheaters before and I've given them a pass. Who gives a crud. I just played it through and then never played them again. Gaming is for fun not confrontation. Walking away was the best thing you could do.

The guy should be playing solo video games if thats his attitude.

And I agree with the others who said OFS shouldnt make or break the game anyway.

Sorry LOS I meant ;)

Can you just stack a few more washers to add the "appropriate" height to the bases? That sounds like about the only legitimate complaint he had.

That said, I would recognize that I was perhaps perceived as proxying in that situation (even if not really), and gone out of my way to point out what was what.

Having done that, the rest is his problem. As others have said, once the game is underway, if you've at least made a point of pointing out what's what, he's got no valid complaint.

- Bob

What a tool.

True Line of Site doesn't give you much of an advantage because being shorter they can actually have a harder time getting LOS as well.

People using small things like grots, termagaunts, and anything shorter than a Space Marine are also cheating then as well.

I may have been forced to let the air out of his tires if I knew which vehicle was his!

If it is a store you and your friends use a lot, then they need to be told. Apart from anything else, it gives them an opportunity to decide on a course of action – even if that course of action is to do nothing. Another course of action could be to post a set of rules regulating the conduct of players – 'due to an unfortunate misunderstanding in a game recently, the following code of conduct is…..' – including a sheet where the people using the shop can write down their own suggestions.

Unless the "kid" won the Lotto, I'd talk to the owner. Hint at "availible capital" and "where I like to spend my money" and you might get their attention.

I'd bet his stuff wasn't even painted

The game store owner should be held accountable because the guy was a jerk?

And I'm not really sure that the game store owner should be in the business of denying people access to his store based on who likes who. . . It sucks having to deal with jerks sometimes, but that's life.

As an ex store owner, The person running his mouth would have been the one I showed the door. Then again in my old store this would not have lasted more then 20 or 30 words before I put a stop to it. You just can not leave some gamers alone with out supervision.

So how much was the side bet on the game?
Hundreds? Thousands?
Nothing?
And this moron still got that upset over such trivialities??
You did well but nows the time to forget it.
This guy has a bigger shoe size than his maturity age.

Maybe you should consider moving to historicals.

World War Two, Eastern Front, Nazis vs Communists.

It is much more friendly than GW.

You did not cheat. He should object to your army when it is fielded, not after they do well on the field of battle.

My friend Jim used average dice for a year or more in our games, which do not use average dice (six sided die with no six or one, just and extra four and five) until we caught him. Now we just don't let him bring his own dice.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

Run a demo game at the store using 5150, Force on Force, or ANY set of rules where you can use any figures.

Use your cool Rogue Trader figures plus some non-GW figures, just for giggles. Plant the crowd playing with at least a couple of your buddies and ensure they have very FUN time that every one notices. Let every one join in at will and have a blast.

When your buddy looks disgusted flash him a good crap eating grin, shrug, and drive on having fun.

Jake

It's only cheating if your girlfriend find out.

Oh sorry wrong type of cheating.
Any thing short of putting cyanid in his coffee is not cheating if he surives the game you havn't cheated

I just grabbed 2D6 from the store without cking them. I never noticed they had no ones or sixes.
However, I do think it took you a long time to pack up and leave.
And you weren't cheating.
Natokina.

The Dreadnaught said :

Just so you know though, the last version of the rules I played regularly (4th) did have a rule that required figs to be based on a base that was AT LEAST the size of the one they were packaged with.

Soooo……. if I use pre-slotta base figures (which were packaged only with the bases their feet were stuck to) then I could "legally" field them unbased ? This would then solve all my tactical ineptitude at 1 stroke (or, maybe it wouldn't).

I really hate it when rule lawyers exploit loop holes – the Society of Ancients published an article on how to design winning DBA/DDMM terrain that was legal (it met the rules requirements) but came up with things like fields 30cm long and 3mm deep. Very clever for noticing it's possible, not so clever for actually putting it into practice …..

A tempest in a teapot. I would have farted loudly and escaped on the vapors. Crude for rude

Huh?

This guy needs to get a life and a sense of proportion.

When did pushing miniatures around a table become life and death?

If this is the worse thing that ever happens to either one of you, there are plenty of people out there who would gladly change places.

I would have told the whining bitch where >she< could stick it, and have.

The whole thing was bogus. He could have whipped you big time, if he had thought of telling you what a guy told me one time.
I use 3/4" round bases and he had slotta bases. When we went up against each other in melee (using movement trays in WAB), he claimed he should have two of his figures battle one of mine because of the way the figures were touching.

"Me: Your stands are smaller than mine."

What a maroon.

JW

Dan: The stories I hear of tournaments today frequently appall me.

Amen, brother.

"…First you should have kicked him in the balls.
Second against his head, when he goes down.
Third in his stomach when he's on the ground.
That would have taught him what it means to fight unfair…."

Um, not a good idea. My Cousin in Califormia (rowdy as a youth two misdemeanor assaults due to not walkinga way from ethnic slurs – Mexican-American – and built like a bull) got a felony charge of assault for defending himself when attacked by a drunk (underage) white male – he kicked him in self defense (hence the excuse for the felony asaault) when the tried to hit him while falling down from a brokem jaw. The punk was white, rich, drinking in a bar when his age qwas known/ignored, and verbally accosted one of the band members, my cousins girl friend, and dispalyed an amazing levelof homophobic/racial/ethnic slurs. Guess who had his charges dropped? Guess who was told by the white female Assistant D.A. (she had all tehLatino looking males with charges herded in a separate room,) that if they pled guilty they would get 1-5 years while if not it would be 10-20? It broke my uncle financially but eventually a modicum of justice was achieved. I left out all the cheessy details…

Violence is a riaky choice, especially if you're the wrong "group" for the locale.

Walking away was the morally high ground choice.

I might have hit him. At 59, short, grey-haired, hazel eyes, passing for 100% caucasian (Thank you, Mom,) regularly, and nerdy looking who would believe I didn't strike to defend myself?

Seriously, violence is such a non-PC response (even in self-defense) I'd avoid it if possible.

Gracias,

Glenn

If he had a prob he should have said so before playing. Your'e not cheating mate – the best answer is from kyoteblue (just above)…

Similar situation is why I quit playing GW games. All the local players sound just like this guy.

I wouldn't be laughing about this if something similar hadn't happened to me: I was playing against a youngster with my ORIGINAL space orks, and the kid (as sterotypically nerdy a poor soul as there ever was) looked through his quarter-inch thick classes and whined "You can't use those, they're not official!" I responded "The hell they're not!" When he responded that they didn't look like the one in the new issue of white Dwarf, I reached down, popped one off it's base, and showed him the copyright date. He immediately conceded the game to me, claiming that he refused to fight against someone who had figures that were older than he was…

@ IronMike
and maybe you had more figures than he had IQ points?
(That wouldnt be many BTW)

I missed this post the 1st time around.

Wow, what a tool. I would have packed it up as well. And to those who think his points about base size and model size have some legitimacy. If, and I don't necessary agree, his points were legitimate he should have brought them up when the armies were being set up. He should have had plenty of forewarning before the game started. By bring them up during the game only shows he was a poor loser.

As long as it's being rehashed, I'll chime in.

They guy was clearly a dick. Your figures were GW and he gave assent to your base choice by playing you but didn't start whining until he was loosing. That said, you may run into this problem again.

GW rules are that all minis should be placed on "the size base they came with" This could be interprited as being both width and height. It may not seem like much, but between the small size of RT marines, their hunched poses, and the 2mm that you loose by going from 3mm high slottas to washers, your marines are likely a full head shorter than current edition marines. That is a significant advantage under the current rules.

I would advise one or more of 3 courses of action
1) Check with the player before you start playing to weed out the douchebags or at least make them shut up. Most folks will probably be cool with your figs as-is and many will probably really like seeing your awesome old-school figs.
2)Buy a single current edition marine for line-of-sight checks.
3)Get a bunch of 2mm or 3mm magnets to put on the bottom of your bases should you run into this kind of player again.

^What Ordinarybass said. Except with some extra derogatory remarks toward the fellow you played against. Particularly something implying that your opponent that day has unlawful relations with pigs.

I would certainly recommend putting them on slotta bases at least though. I've never seen 25s or 28s mounted on washers that looked good. Something about the slotta base that makes them stand out just right.

I blame television, it makes shows with this kind of character, makes them charming, funny and endearing. Until you meet one in the real world.

I have played 40K for years and am now done with it cause of the constant rule changes GW has used ….to not make the game better but for the sole purpose of making more money!!!!!and it seems to me that most of the people i have encountered that play 40K act and sound like your so called opponent…….a real ass!!!!! You did not cheat!!! and for the record GW sucks!!!

"the Society of Ancients published an article on how to design winning DBA/DDMM terrain that was legal (it met the rules requirements) but came up with things like fields 30cm long and 3mm deep. "

Err… to clarify, someone wrote an article for the Slingshot, the magazine for the Society, and it got published…

Yep not surprised. This is creeping over from MtG tournament metality and MMO (wold of warcraft and such) troll crowd.
You know what is fun for them? Winning!
They have fun by sitting around with charts and excel tables, they win on paper, they win by buying the latest codex and making the most broken army list.

This prevails in points based games. For them the fun is winning, if they are losing clearly something is wrong the game needs balance! The opponent is cheating!

Come up to one of those players and suggest a scenario based game instead of points. They will look upon you as if they just walked in on you sandwiched between their sister and their mom in bed.

I know this is the internet, where talk is cheap, but may I just point out in Britain punching the guy would have you got you an… interesting… talk with a man in blue. Being insulted doesn't require self defence.