"Anyone ever game Battle of Khalkhyn Gol?" Topic

If so what scale (micro,15mm, 25mm,etc)? What were your results? Were you able to make it competetive? I read a very interesting article on this and it seems that this was critcal in keeping the Japanese from thinking of assiting in the war against the Soviets in WW2.

It was a featured demonstration game at Salute this year. It was covered on a number of wargaming sites; worth looking up.

Allen

We are doing the air battles as a participation game at Claymore and Partizan II this year.

Fatman

Here are some pics of the game Allen is referencing:

link

On the Blitzkrieg Commander site there was a wargame scenario for this battle.

Also in an old issue of Command Post Quarterly (For Command Decision) there was a scenario for CD.

Played it once back in 1984, using a computer-assist version of Tractics I'd written, running on a Commodore C-64.

I don't think the forces involved were the historical match-up, I think it was whatever miniatures the host wanted to put on the table. Lots of T-28's and T-35's as I recall, plus lots of BT-7's zipping around the table at top speed. The Japanese had a lot of suicide guys with anti-tank bombs tied to the end of long sticks.

It was microarmour (6mm) scale.

A very big game, lots of fun, not to be taken too seriously. The Russians won of course (the host wouldn't have it any other way) and I think it took us three or four sessions to finish the whole game.

A couple of nice boardgames covered the battle back in the 1970s. They were in Conflict magazine and I think S&T. These provided some good OBs and made setting up the board easy.

Today I tend to play things in 10-12mm (Minifig) but will play 15mm (battleHours-Quality Cast).

I played the Conflict Magazine Board game -- pretty one sided affair IIRC.

mjc

yes it was, as was the actual battle, but the map and OBs were easy to convert to minis in my option.

Played it years ago, 6 mm

I was the Japanese player) – I got beat like a drum

Great photos, thanks

There's a Kalkhin-Gol scenario for Panzer Korps that I've run before in 20mm scale at local conventions. Called "Across the Halha" it pits the 23rd Division and some of 7th Division of the Japanese Army of Kwantung against Zhukov. It's a pretty massive dust-up, lots of units, and lots of air power as well. You can get it for free at the Yahoo! Group, called "PanzerkorpsHQ"

link

Here's the intro to the battle:
Background: . The Empire of Japan was interested
in expanding its power into Soviet Siberia,
seeking resources and territory. It engaged in a
series of border skirmishes along the frontier
with Mongolia, and in May of 1939 the Army of
Kwantung's 23rd Division crossed the border to
seize Mongolian territory. General Zhukov responded
forcefully, and the historical result was
a crushing defeat for Japan which convinced the
Japanese to sign a separate peace with the
USSR. Can you repeat Zhukov's success?

Scenario: July 1, 1939, the 23rd division of the Japanese Army of Kwantung is advancing on the Halha
river, intent upon crossing and then seizing territory from the People's Republic of Mongolia.

Soviet Briefing: The units advancing towards you are the 23rd Division and elements of the 7th Division of
the Army of Kwantung under Lt. General Michitaro Komatsubara.They are supported by the bulk of the Japanese
air forces available to the theatre. The broken terrain
and badlands of the Mongolian steppes dictate the
enemy's advance, and they must capture the Fui
Heights to give then the best path forward into our allies,
the Mongolian People's Republic. The MPRA
(Mongolian People's Republic Army) has tasked experienced
cavalry and infantry units to the fight, and Comrade
Stalin has assured you that more support is coming.
The 11th Infantry Regiment may start the game dug
in on the Fui Heights.

As General Zhukov, you must stop the Japanese in
their tracks!

Japanese Briefing: You must advance into Mongolia and seize the bridgehead over the Halha and capture the Fui heights! Your Division will be reinforced by a regiment of the 7th Division.

The Japanese players *must* advance rapidly and aggressively to cross the Halha and take their objectives because they initially out number and out gun the Soviets. However, as the game wears on Soviet reinforcements begin to arrive and tip the balance of power away from the Japanese -- especially when Soviet armor shows up! It's certainly an interesting game. Last time I ran it the Japanese were too timid at first, except one commander that crossed with mobile forces and skirted dug-in Soviet defenders to try and reach the railhead area where the Soviets appeared and hammer them as they came on. He really freaked out the Soviet players for a time.

I think Manny Granillo took photos, I'll ask if he can post some to the Yahoo! Group.

Wow those are some great photos! I wish I was able to get to Salute…to bad I am in the US. Keep the info coming. I have found this event very interesting and am encouraged it has had some attention paid to it.

I'm trying to paint it in 12mm; however, without a Type 89 it's very tough to really do.

link

the first link helpfully listed above was the Demo at Reading, the one above is the one at Salute with it extended to 24ft ( i think!). Each show was a different scenario. I will be restaging for some mag articles in a while.

neil"at"troop-of-shewe.co.uk

Yes played it years ago as a club game using IABSM from Too Fat Lardies--and again with the Escape Committee at Salute(which won best Demo and Best in Show) using inhouse rules…

I ran a Nomonhan scenario using Battlefront WWII at Historicon before the rules were published in 2000. I rated the early Russian 45mm guns too strong, and it made things very difficult for the Japanese. The Russians certainly didn't need the help.

The Salute photos are inspiriational, so I may have to give the scenario another try.

Mark

Yes, I played the Conflict board game back in the 70's … Nice game, very enjoyable … I still have it in storage with my other Wargames of that era … BTW … the pics of the models and terrain are excellent. Beautiful board and models !!!

This is one one my next projects in 1/300. I am slowly putting together the models / miniatures.

45mm too strong! hmg's could do serious damage to the majority of the ija "tank" arm.

Yes in '39 a 45mm gun would have been the most powerfull AT in the world!! At that time AT rifles and 2lbr/37mm were standard AT weapons!!

Messing around with T26's and whatnot is good fun though

I ran it a few years ago after reading Cox's book. Was done in 6mm using Micro Armor the game. I love the period but it was hell on the Japanese. Have to love a micro armor game were you are scared of anti-tank rifles.

Jon

anleiher – thank you for the link I love that there are even troops with the Manchukuo flag.

You're welcome. Our own Troop of Shewe is the artist who produced those beauties. He's obviously a very talented guy.

ah ha, someone noticed! -lol-

Anleiler---Don't encourage him!!!1 (lol)

Troop of Shewe: marvelous job on the terrain. None of that "the battlefield is a perfect plain, except for these hills here."

Strategy & Tactics did a Nomonhan game a few years ago: link

Avalanche Press proposed a Nomonhan game for their Panzergrenadier system (madness!), but it never got enough "votes" to make it into production.

They also proposed "Red Desert," a Nomonhan game at a scale similar to that of the S&T game. link
It was supposed to be published last year, but has yet to make an appearance.

I've tried to find this battlesite on Google Earth, without success. Love to visit the battlefield, given the remoteness, must be all kinds of interesting wrecks around. Just have to watch out for landmines.

Search for "Halhin Gol" in Google Earth, and it'll place you on the river about twelve miles northeast of the Buir nuur (Dark Lake), at the site of the mostly abandoned Russian village of Halhgol. There's a museum there.

You can follow the river upstream as it curves around towards the southeast. No-men-han/Nomonhaan is labeled as a mountain, but the village is not marked.

The imagery isn't that good in a lot of the areas where fighting occurred, but there are a few little surprises you can find.

If we can ever convince HMGS to move one of their shows to the Ulaanbaatar Convention Center, the battlefield would make a nice overnight trip, only a little over 300 miles away.

Allen

Cool, I'm impressed you found this. I suspect the preponderance of land mines would preclude just driving around and visiting the battlefield.

Ironically, it's less dangerous to visit WW1 and earlier battlefields than it is to visit WW2 and later, with the whole land mine issue…