"28 gun schooners?" Topic

Langton makes models for these but I am unable to find any references to them. Does anyone know what ships these represent?

That might be a question for Rod himself. I don't have any Turkish references, and I am not aware of any American schooner that carried anywhere near that many guns – unless 28 includes swivels. By comparison, at 18 guns, Prince de Neufchatel was considered one of the larger schooners.

I've emailed Rob, but its only been a couple of days.

Thanks for mentioning Prince de Neufchatel, I'll add her to Enterprise and Chasseur.

Well, the Americans had a few schooners that big, but I can't seem to find their names right now… found them here: link

28 guns is off the scales though. Schooners rarely broke 100" on the gun deck and 28 guns of any type need more room than that.

I'd be willing to bet it is a typo.

4 – 12, or 14 would be more likely.

However, maybe they are mounting lots of swivel rail guns, and counting those too. I have seen some other references do that, for other vessels.

"Well, the Americans had a few schooners that big, but I can't seem to find their names right now… found them here: link"

I looked up each of those entries and was unable to find any schooners approaching 28 guns.

From Mr. Langton:

"I made this model a lot of years ago for a customer who wanted to include
it in his American fleet. My research at the time showed there was a
Turkish 28 gun schooner and there was some conjecture that there was also
an American vessel of similar rig and gun complement. I was never able to
pin it down, but he and a lot of my customers since, have opted for this
model as part of their American fleet.

Yes, information is hard to track down. I have spent years at it, so I
appreciate the problem."

I've seen 20 – 22 gun schooners, but 28 seems to be a bit over the top.

Then again, I guess anything is possible in the race to keep up with the frigates.

Sounds more likely to be a 20 – 22 gunner with a healthy set of swivel guns on the rails too.

I knew there was a topic about this ship!

It's likely this is the Betsey/Meshuda which seems to have been a merchant schooner, and in Barbary service carried 28 guns.

from link

Five years before the outbreak of war between the United States and Tripoli, a Scot named Peter Lisle worked as a deckhand aboard the Betsy, an American schooner. Corsairs from Tripoli captured his ship, but rather than become a slave, he converted to Islam and took the name of an earlier corsair as his own--Murad Reis. The Betsy, renamed Meshuda, became his flagship, and he eventually became admiral of Tripoli's navy and married a daughter of Yusuf, the bashaw.

AND

One of the last Scottish pirates gained fame as a Barbary Corsair. Born Peter Lisle (or Lyle) in Perth, he became the Grand Admiral of Tripoli's navy and Bashaw Yusuf's son-in-law. Prior to his enslavement and conversion to Islam in 1796, Lisle sailed aboard the Betsy, an American schooner. He adopted the name of a famous corsair of the sixteenth century--Murad Reis (or Rais). The bashaw gave him the Betsy to command, which was renamed Meshuda. The vessel carried twenty-eight guns and had a crew of three hundred sixty-six men. He displayed the national flags of ships he captured in the order in which he regarded them; the American flag held the lowest rank.

In 1803 he led the boarding party that captured the USS Philadelphia after it grounded on a sand bar in Tripoli's harbor. When he questioned the captured Americans, now slaves, about William Bainbridge, he wanted to know whether their captain was a coward or a traitor. The sailors defended Bainbridge, to which Murad Reis replied, "Who with a frigate of 44 guns, and 300 men, would strike his colours to one solitary gunboat, must surely be one or the other." (Wheelan, p. 175)

Lyle, who may have had a wife and five children in London prior to his "turning Turk," was "a ‘slight' man, of ‘indifferent morals,' with a blondish beard, a foul temper, and an above-average thirst for hard liquor. Reports of his drunken, violent behavior--such as beating servants or cursing strangers--often bobbed up in consular reports." (Zacks, p. 47) Around 1816, he engineered a vicious attack on the American consul to Tripoli, Richard B. Jones. To satisfy the Americans, the bashaw banished Lyle for three years. On his return, Lyle resumed his position as Grand Admiral. He died in 1832 when a cannon ball hit him during a failed coup.