"West Wind's "Trafalgar" Deal...Everybody into the Pool" Topic

I just got my West Wind e-newsletter, notifying me of, amongst other fine products, their new line of 1/3000 ships-of-the-line, and the (surprise) WAB "Trafalgar" fleet A/fleet B/rulebook bundle.

I have tried to sit on the sidelines for this one, but my resolve is breaking. Before recently, I could take comfort in the fact that there was no point in bothering; anything 1/1200 and up just HAD to have rigging, or it won't look right. Even 1/2400 really kind of need standing rigging for structural integrity. Sure, I could pick up some of the much-praised Langton ships, and am capable of rigging them, but I don't want to bet how long it would take me, or how many I would manage before the affair bogged down. And I get bogged down an awful lot.

I tenatively purchased a pack of Valiant 1/2000 74's to see if I liked the scale. I find them somewhat fiddly, and they can pass without rigging, but I am still not sold on them.

So I see that Old Glory, Tumbling Dice, and now West Wind have one-piece castings, in 1/2400 and 1/3000 for the latter. I can deal with one piece castings. And I'm sure that if I find Valiant's are fiddly, these are fiddlier still…but I may be willing to compromise. However, I truly wish someone in the US sold either of these lines in smaller increments than the whole fleet, or at least offer x-dollars plus shipping "samples" like Baccus 6mm does.

So, can anyone give me some input on either of these lines? How is the detailing? Perhaps post photos of your own fine painted models…preferably with a some US coinage in there for scale?

Though I don't have them in my hands yet, the Old Glory 1/2400 range would seem to be a highly cost effective way to go. They are all one casting as well – including the base. Do a search and you will see a few have commented on their quality thus far.

Similar to you, I would like to see Old Glory start to offer deals on selected ship types so that fleets can be made for the other 5 nation's and privateer lists.

As for Tumbling Dice, you can get individual ships already at Brookhurst models. Be advised however, you can get 4, 5, and 6 OG ships, for about the price of one TD ship from Brookhurst.

Oops, I meant to post this link to West Wind's "Forged in Battle" minis:

link

I got my OG ships today. Here's a couple right-outta-the-box pics:

picture

picture

Those all do look nice.

I really like the Valiant 1/2000th minis as well. About the only downside to them is that they don't have the yards for the bowsprits.

Wish they made them.

They look superb, if you take the time to paint them up nicely.

Hey thanks virtual – been waiting to see one of these. I get the idea that the quick paint job on the OG site, was one done in haste. I think some of you guys will do much more with them. Looks like they are big enough for some basic rigging. Do you plan to do that virtual?

I must admit that they do look larger than I thought judging you to be averaged sized guy. How about laying them all out in formation, and snapping a photo? ;)

You might want to start a new thread actually for these.

I must admit, those 1/3000 West wind ships look pretty good. They look like they have much detail for that size.

I went with the 1/2400 Hallmark ships (with rule book deal) from Magister Militum: link

I have all three manufacturers models and will, hopefully, get to paint the OG stuff this weekend at which point I will photograph and post a Hallmark, Tumbling Dice and Old Glory 74 gun SOL.

Personal Opinion only – I prefer Tumbling Dice as a pure model. They do have sails that must be glued but the masts and ratlines are integral to the hull whereas Hallmark has, depending on model, one or two fully separate masts that in my experience, will inevitably come off when gaming. Old Glory is a single piece casting and is (subject to finishing painting) my personal choice for knocking out a quick 7-8 ship gaming fleet and putting it on the table looking pretty good at 3 feet. Both Tumbling Dice and Old Glory are fully compatible size wise (2-3 mm variances in length at the waterline/height at mast tip including base) and can be mixed comfortably in the same fleet while the Hallmark/Figurehead ships are markedly smaller.

The hull detail on the Hallmark ships is probably the best in that it is clean, crisp and very detailed but the ratline-less masts look a bit too open for an overall effect. The Tumbling Dice ratlines are scored into the metal and can be painted a light gray and then subjected to multiple washes for a very nice effect. The hulls are clean and the detail good if not the jeweler quality of Hallmark. Old Glory is remarkably close to Tumbling Dice in hull detail and in some cases the bow and stern may be better than their Tumbling Dice equivalent and only Old Glory has the cross piece on the bowsprit for every ship (Hallmark has it for the 98+ gun vessels). The extra metal used for the 'all in one' masts of Old Glory make them a second place finisher (but suprisingly close) to TD as an overall model but it is not so pronounced as to outweigh the ease of painting, sturdiness in the face of klutzy fingers and the cost effectiveness of Old Glory.

Just to summarize my opinion. I'm pleased with the Old Glory ships and will be using them for knocking together some very useful fleets for Trafalgar and other AOS games in 1/2400 that I can carry around and let my non-1/2400 AOS gaming friends use. I will continue painting up my TD ships for my own uses and for possibly, the one or two 'specials' the Trafalgar rules single out (Santissima Trinidad, Victory, etc.). I will finish off my Hallmark Spaniards and Russians but they are going on the auction block.

The bad thing is despite all this great information, we seem to be hijacking the west wind thread. Oh well ;)

Well, the thread was really "inspired" by the WW minis :)

I would like to pick up a few TD minis from Brookhurst, Templar83 (I had forgotten they carried TD, thank you), but they are comparatively expensive! I guess I amy place an order for some other things and pick one just to see what I think, but for for the price of four first rates, I could have the whole OG Spanish fleet.

Thank you very much for the pics, VSB. They're very helpful. But can you tell me what ship/rating that is?

I would very much love to see your comparisson shots, McKinstry. I see now you posted that on the "got your OG ships yet?" thread. So this topic is a bit redundant, I was a bit too eager to pop it off before going back to work. I try not to be "that guy", but it sometimes winds up that way!

Sorry duh…. that was a Spanish 74.

Judging by those date stamps on your photos Larry, I want your time machine. That is pretty impressive having those OG ships five years before they get sculpted.

I wish it were so. I was younger then.

I put new batteries in the camera and forgot to reset the time. New task for the day.

Oh damn, those West Wind ships look beautiful. Are those flags and pennants cast on? I already have decent sized collections o Tumbling Dice, but a little smaller might be ideal for my gaming table.

Question though…While I am excited that everyone is coming out with these "Trafalgar Packages", will there be any future releases or development that will allow people to purchase ships in smaller packs (specifically directed at OG & WW)? Me owning models of every single ship at the battle might be overkill…

Also, has anyone seen the WW in the flesh? Any US distributors for WW, I don't see OG selling the 1/3000 range alongside theirs, but I could be wrong…

Bases look very thick on those WW images great big slabs. I know they are only 1/3000 but they still look crude IMHO.

I had Hallmark and wished I hadn't sold them. They are the best of the small scale ranges IMHO and I never had any breakages.

Never understood why there is so much bother about ratlines. The ratlines are thin untreated natural ropes that are nearly invisible until you get close the real thing. The shrouds themselves are much heavier tar covered ropes but still not as heavy as the main stays. It just seems to be a wargamers convention that you have to have seriously out of scale ratlines on your models whilst ignoring much heavier stays…

Occasionally you'll see a model with the main stays and shrouds but not ratlines and (again IMHO) they look much better. There are a few posted here on TMP. If you look at some paintings from the era this effect become apparent.

I just recived the announcment from WW this week, and was very tempted after taking a look at the pics on their website. Without haveing seen either first hand, or even side-by-side photos, it can be hard to judge, but the WW ships do look mighty nice.

My only hesitation at this point is the same as some others, the lack of anything except the two fleet packs. Hopefully they will break them down later, and perhaps add a few more ships?