"That humanoid alien race you always wanted in 15mm?" Topic

As posted earlier as a TMP thread. They are available from War Eagle Designs. One of my operations.

Hi Eli.

No worries at all.

Here is my first list that started off the topic.

Lizard-muscle-men with big-bopper guns and stunner-clubs?
She-cats which dress like Egyptians and whom use their superior mind powers?
Huge snake-things with bat wings that cut up their enemies with their venom blades?
Mannish sized bug-men that use crystal lances and ride Caterpillar monsters?
These are some of my ideas for alien humanoid races I would see produced in 15mm.

That was my starting list.
Okay?

Now these I added after the guys gave me good comments to consider and CC and others here provided links to images for me to view, as I considered their request.

Near Future Noncoms that you would see in movies such as "Blade Runner" and "Starship Troopers".
(and thanks to Top Gun Ace and Mark, there will also be GO GO Moon Base Girls in Skirts)

Killer Robots and Support: Heavy Weapon Walkers.
(Jeff and I talked of a race of them and not just more Terminator-wanna-bees)

Cute Fuzzy animalistic tribals and Support: Riding Beast.
(CC`s fualt)
Not-Chigs.
(CC…again, but with some help from others)

Crystal-Men race.
(cloudcaptain pushed me (hee,hee)right into doing them like "NOT-Drej" from Titan AE)

There we have it. I hope there is something in there for you. If not now, then there may be later.

Great list. Especially looking forward to the following:
- Mannish sized bug-men that use crystal lances and ride Caterpillar monsters
- Killer Robots and Support: Heavy Weapon Walkers
- Crystal-Men race
- Not-Chigs

Jeff

Thank you Jeff.
I am counting on you and perhaps CC and Mark?
To make list for my Aliens. I am no rules man.
Steve is a friend of mine too, I am not sure if you know him here, but he will work on list too I should think.

I make `em, you good people write `em up.

Wait a minute here now…ha, ha!
I think that the guys who came up with the idea to give me the ideas in the first place…should make up the rules.
Yes I do, indeed!

Giant bat-winged snake things . . . No.

Large (2x Man sized) bat-winged snake things . . . yes, I could see grabbing some for not-Velantians.

Ah, wow, how did I miss that? Sorry for the oversite.

I will say that most of the races you propose do not appeal to me, not because of the races you choose, but because of the themes you assign to them.

1) Large muscular reptilian aliens. Not a bad start, if not a bit overdone as reptialian aliens go. But you lost me at bopper guns and stun clubs.

How about you give these guys some reasonable equipment? If you want to make them HTH thugs, that's cool, but then give them some interesting culturally iconic weapons that distinguish them.

2) She cats. That idea lost me right there. Having grown up throug hthe 80's anthropomorphic animal craze, I can say I have had my life's fill of cheesecake female felines.

Why not a matriarchal cat race with females in command or something? Given a nice set of racially identifiable gear they could be every bit as splendorous as you intended without having to derive directly from Earth culture.

3) Huge snake thing with flappy wings that cut… Alright. That's enough there. Sounds like a tyranid and actually is a creature from Privateer's Hordes.

This could be cool in 15mm but I would really consider it as a menace, not a species.

4) Mannish-sized bug men. Alright, we have something there. But it goes downhill from there with crystal lances and catipillar mounts. At that point they are sounding like something from Lewis Carol.

These could be done as a nice tribal race. Crystal weapons could be made from their natural secretions and could range across a full gambit of culturally iconic equipment. As for mounts, might I suggest something sturdier and easier to ride than a wriggling worm? Perhaps something with some muscles like a flea or a beetle? Perhaps they could ride something big, slow-witted, and naturally docile like an aphid or such? A caterpillar, giant or otherwise, seems like awful cavalry. It is low to the ground and offers no balance point upon which a rider can have a safe ride.

As for the new additions, I can get behind Near Future Noncoms. Especially if these were more than simple colonists but urban types – flashy techno future prostitutes, riggers, pro bodyguards, detectives, corporate types, etc. As to the rest of them…

1) Killer Robots. Never been a huge fan, Terminator or otherwise. Now, if you wanted to do a nice range of robots that might work as say a not-droid army, that might be cool. Also, some robots that might work alongside humans might be cool.

2) Cute fuzzy alien tribals (ewok, fuzzy, whatever) I can get behind.
3) Not-chigs. Not much of a fan of "not" races and the Chigs never did much for me. They seem like a lot of cumbersome, wholly impractical equipment on a supposedly hi-tech biotech race. But, I can see the appeal of not-figs and so I'll leave this one along.

4) Crystal Men. I really have little to say about them. Not a fan, but that's more a sense of taste.

If I had to suggest an alien race I'd go with something that we haven't seen much around. I've suggested raptoroid aliens before but they never seemed to go anywhere. Also I happen to really like aliens with odd anatomy such as those in these illustrations –

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There, I do hope that I have provided something a bit more constructive this time around.

-Eli

Indeed you have! I think that Alien Monsters would be very fun to have as a by the piece figures set.

Think of some more ideas and post them here. We'll see what the other fine people think and talk about it some more.

I have limited space in the first mold. For the time being I am going to have to go with what I can fit into the singel 12" master.

That will be 1 Troop and 1 Support. For each race listed, to get them all started.

"…there will also be GO GO Moon Base Girls in Skirts)"

Superb news! They also sometimes just wear skintight jumpsuits, for a bit of variety – those could double for SkyDiver crew-women, if necessary, although I do like the latter's fishnet look too:

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A few with pistols, and laser rifles would be nice as well.

Of course, we will need aliens in high-tech spacesuits, to battle them on the Moonbase:

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I generally prefer the uniform with just the ringed-mesh webbing, and not the silver fabric decoration. At 15mm scale, that doesn't even have to be modeled, simplifying the alien uniforms.

Here are some other shots of the SHADO astronauts (those will be easy to paint – just polish, add a bit of yellow highlighting on the equipment and helmet, and a dark wash for the faceplates, and fabric folds, and seal them):

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If you are looking to produce any other figs, these might be nice too:

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Sadly, there aren't any decent photos of the uniforms of the SHADO HQ personnel, or the crews for the mobiles, but you can see them on the videos. Essentially, they are pretty much just high-tech, jumpsuits, without collars.

Some Gorn would be nice too:

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as well as Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, and Starship Enterprise crewmen and women. The go-go uniforms might work for the Star Trek Enterprise, or Romulan crew-women too.

Thanks for your consideration.

Looking forward to the new releases.

Well, I am glad I could contribute in some way. Though it is unfortunate that I missed out on round one, I'll make sure to keep my ideas for round two.

If you intend to do just 1 Trooper and 1 Support per mold for each race, how is this going to make forces viable? Would it not make better sense to go with fewer races in a mold with more poses to make the figures more attractive to the buyer.

It seems to me that unfinished offerings are less of an appeal than something with more variation and better range of poses.

-Eli

If you intend to do just 1 Trooper and 1 Support per mold for each race, how is this going to make forces viable? Would it not make better sense to go with fewer races in a mold with more poses to make the figures more attractive to the buyer.

I would agree with this point from the perspective of viable forces. I would suggest doing a poll of which aliens would be in the highest demand and do a couple of groups with multiple sculpts. Other wise, many people will say "I like the miniatures, but there are not enough poses for a force" and keep on shopping. Look at how GZG is constantly beat up for not having enough poses and they have at least four or five a pack.

Really don't want to discurage you, but we also want you to be successful.

Jeff

I agree that a minimum of four poses to a range is really needed, in order to garner interest, and to make it possible to sell them.

I prefer 8 – 12 different ones myself, for a platoon sized unit of about 30 – 40 troops, or so.

One off's might work for a few people wanting a collectible, but an "army of one", despite what the US Army says, probably isn't going to be very effective, and/or to sell well.

If you only want to do one of each as a marketing strategy, to get others to commit to purchasing more in the future, that might work.

Thanks for listening.

You people are so very cool!
Thank YOU All!

Now I have to think some more…ahh!

Forget the Humanoids, I want the weird stuff….

Intelligent manipulating starfish.

Oh…. I have an Idea…..

You are welcome. 4 poses minimum and it doesn't hurt to include an obvious command fig. Even if the command fig is just a standard trooper pointing, it helps with forming forces.

I will back up Jeff's comment on the feedback to GZG, and this is from their loyal customers/fans. They have expanded many of their ranges by including prone and kneeling troops, greatly adding to the variety of poses.

Build the range slow and steady and it'll grow.

-Eli

A couple troopers, command figure and a couple support weapons is a good starting point. You can include as many troopers as you want in a pack, but there is always the need for command and support weapons.

Just keep the whole thing at a manageable level. You could do the single figure sculpts as suggested before for a few of the prime ideas and then post those to get feedback on which groups to pursue first as well as comments on what a unit would need. Research is the key, to having what people want and will buy. Take your time and do it right, this is likely not best veiwed as a race.

Jeff

What are people's thoughts on the positioning of command figures as far as packaging is concerned?

I find it frustrating when a company packages command and specialists along with generic infantry.

As I am usually using the figs with a homebrew rules set or at least with my own custom version of a force, I find it a bit off-putting to have to buy commanders and support troopers I may not use.

I prefer to have troopers packaged on their own with an accompanying package of support and command. This allows me to buy them in the ration I need. I may still end up with a few odds and ends, but not usually as much as I would if the infantry were sold in the same package as command/support.

-Eli

-Eli

I have been thinking about this and here is what I have. I am going to make a Galactic Denizens set.
This is going to have 1 figure for each of the races in it. It will be like an old school D&D Monsters boxed set. I am also going to make a Space Bar set, with Aliens setting around tables. I will even make a set of Go-Go-Gals and a Robot Barkeep.
That is first.
Then I show all of my stuff.
Then I do a poll asking of all of these 15mm aliens, which 3 races would the gaming public truly support as a full blown army?
I will then do a 5 pose set of figures for the base troopers. A separate Command set, with Heavy weapons in their own set also. To finish it off (rather to get it started) each of these 3 new armies will have there own heavy support unit/item.

What do you all think of this?

Well, all very cool (some more then others) but might I suggest rather then skirt IP with "not-whatever" you go with original ideas and figures that are inspired by, and clearly differ from, all those "not" figures listed prior to my post?

As for catepillars, perhaps the "riders" stand on the back of the creatures rather then sit in a saddle? Something like standing on the horse's back in trick riding? I mean these aliens grew up "riding" that way and have superior agility to pull that off, right?

Gracias,

Glenn

Right Glenn, on all counts.

Worm-surfing alien warriors? I don't think it would fly, personally. Yes, horse warriors of Earth did stand on the backs of their horses, but this was all for show and bravado.

Now, we are talking aliens here, so perhaps the actual creatures is only simply described as a caterpillar but is a bit more complicated and has some sort of anatomical element that makes it a viable riding beast? Maybe the riders have some sort of alien anatomical adaptation that makes them able to handle it? Earth horse warriors never benefited from micro-molecular hook hair on their digits that allow them near industrial strength gripping when needed.

I think it's mainly the visual of caterpillars as mounts that bugs me (no pun intended…ah sure it was) about this particular entry into the project. It's not the riders, it's the mounts.

-Eli

Damn-it Eli, I have to watch what I post when ever you are around.

Ha, keeps me thinking.
Okay, forget all about the hard to ride cute wig-a-worms, I said the wrong thing.
Ha, ha, ha!

Cheers to Mark over at DH!

I do hope that I am not too much a thorn i nthe side.

Nah.

"A couple troopers, command figure and a couple support weapons is a good starting point. You can include as many troopers as you want in a pack, but there is always the need for command and support weapons."

Agree wholeheartedly. I'd rather have two types of alien with the correct mix of figures than 10 types in 2 poses only.

Some further thoughts. 3 poses minimum for grunts. I personally WOULD buy one pose for an army but ONLY if it was the absolute dogs bx's as far as I was concerned! But I'm in a minority there and the caveat remains it would have to be something that ticked every box.

Laserburn has a great range of Aliens but they most importantly lack a range of poses for each race, before it matters whether or not they have command/support figures.

Lying figures – don't do it for me.

Combat poses – patrolling or advancing to combat, weapons forward – brilliant! Skirmishing – yes, great!

Standing firing/kneeling firing, lumpen one foot forward weapon at 45% only – YAWN, YAWN YAWN.

At ease or port arms – Don't waste the expense and effort having them made as far as I'm concerned.

Officers standing bolt upright pointing – YAWN
Officers looking through binoculars – NO NO NO!
Officers leading men forward, tactical hand signs etc – Big YES!

Packaging

8,12,24 fine for grunts fine!
8 mixed leaders
8 mixed support weapons -

With GZG's style of packaging I always have to buy an extra pack just to get my platoon leader figure. Though FWC and ASqL have allowed me to do away with that.

Cheers
Mark

Here is a point to consider.
I am doing a few larger Aliens, still in 15mm of course, but they will stand close to 20mm and 30mm.
For these fellows I am going to be sure to have base elements such as battle field ruin and skulls, to clearly depict that these larger beings are in the same world as their human 15mm sized opponents.

To the point of poses.

The larger Aliens are going to come as pieced miniatures. For example I am currently sculpting the Crystal-Men. This guy has long k-9ish legs, that once cast would be very aped to gentile bending while still holding a solid final position. Follow my meaning here?

I can do one base trooper for these Aliens, and have him(it) in 4 pieces.
2- legs the bases with the feet in various positions on the surface and the torso with head and arms fixed.
All you would need to do is glue the legs to the torso, and then bend them how you want, then glue them into the feet. The arms will be slightly at the sides so you could just bend them up or down to suite you and then twist the head a little for direction of it's weapon hand. Abracadabra in a few minutes you have an almost unlimited number of poses and all from one figure.
Now this guy is in his own category, because of the body and the limbs, he happens to be keen on slight bending without the loss of structural integrity.

For the moment the only other race that can benefit from this approach are the Death Robots, which have slim but sturdy limbs. The spider-legged walkers they use as heavy weapons support will have slightly bendable legs also.
If you are easy, and take it slow you could bend these limbs in any number of positions I should think.

The only thing would be not to do this more than once or twice, because if you keep bending the metal it will weaken, and you could pop off an arm here or a head there.

I hope this makes some sense to you good people.

For most of the human sized figures I am going to have to bite the bullet however and do a lot of single pieces, granted I can convert from the basic troopers for more posing, but these figures will have to be as is, without the neat easy-bend reposing trick.

Sounds good so far. You might want to stay away from putting scale specific items on the base. Folks can apply details to the bases as needed. But some of your larger figs might actually be picked up by other scale players and this just means having to spend more work concealing the scale-identifying details.

-Eli

I know…but they can just slap some flock over these neat little skulls.
If they want to use them for 25mm games say, you know?

Some more alien ideas:

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Cheers
mark

Mark,

Nice pics, think I like the first of the three the best. The other two seem somehow intentionally "evil"

The top one just seems like a buggish alien native.

-Eli

They are a little like my guys, that top pair of images. Good posting Mark.

Poseable limbs, and/or heads is a great idea, to get more variety out of the same castings.

Yes sir it is.

I am doing many little Heads/Weapons/Arms/Torsos for all of my figures.
I have limited means for the molds, at least to start out.
I had to come up with a way to make more options, and after thinking, and reading some of the postings from the Top-Posters here…it came to me.

Lol…you dope, just do a sprue of heads, and other bits.
I can make a set of 6 heads on a sprue, for only the cost of a single full body, in the master molds.

This way instead of trying to get 10 guys in the mold, as complete figures, I can do say 3 Leg/Base sets. then The arms, heads, and weapons in sprues, with some torso options. This will all take up the same amount of room as the 10 complete guys would use. but now you have the means to make many poses from the final pack.

Of course some people will not like that there is going to be some minor extra work to make up a unit, but unless there is a rich uncle out there who has yet to contact me, I have to work with what I have in hand.

What did James Cameron say about making Terminator 1?
He had limited money, so he had to be creative.

It might just work out fine.

I think the sprue idea is a great stretch for A budget. Heads and arm positions are very much one of the most notable parts of a fig. 1 or two bodies with 6 heads and maybe 3 or so arm combos can go a long way.

-Eli

This one is truly scary:

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CC

These are definitely a MUST:

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Dan

Would love to see someone make several 10-12mm tall figures, done just like this, but in 5-6 poses:

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Dan
TMP link

Bill Lumburg

Dan, why the thread necromancy? Until today, you're the only person to have posted in more than two years, and this Black Autumn Productions guy hasn't posted anywhere since May of 2009 and has a "not trusted – locked account" tag to boot. You'd be better off starting a new thread for this, sure doesn't look like he'll be doing anything with your links at this point.

I think this thread reviving is definitely crossing some sort of line- the OP is locked out and no activity on the thread for two years makes this topic definitely dead. A new thread would have been just as fast as exhuming this one and updating it.

-Will

I assume this whole thread went exactly nowhere, right?

Just a thought …

Well, even though the OP is anathema, there were many good suggestions offered in the thread, and by many people.

I doubt they would all want to restate their suggestions again on a new thread, which means that valid info may not be included.

Dan

But couldn't someone who wanted too find the thread on their own? We have a fairly good search function. I'm not sure dragging the thread to the front page, just to have it sink again in a couple of weeks, is particularly useful.

-Will

Come on, is it news that he feeds some need he has by posting as incessantly as he does, including the necro-ing of ancient threads? It's rather poignant really.

Yes, Black Autumn's account was locked down, one assumes, when it became clear that he was BME, Big Mean Elf, real name Joe Byrd.

I wonder why "Battle Miniatures Emporium" has not similarly been locked down, as it's yet the latest incarnation of Joe Byrd? Perhaps the Black Autumn account was locked because he was claiming to be one "Michael." It may be that he approached the editor this time round and asked if he could start another account using his real name, which he is now doing.

He had some other name after Black Autumn but I don't remember what it was. Like Black Autumn, and currently Battle Miniatures Emporium, that account also was big on promises.

When I saw him back, and finally posting some pictures of models, I was hopeful he'd turned a new leaf, and suggested that he just go off and make models, maybe preview them, and then come back when they are ready for sale, without the usual barrage of broken promises. He was good for a while, but now he's back to his old ways. Shame really.

Wow. I really, really hope you are wrong about a connection. It would be sad to have so many hopes dashed, just to satisfy someone's personal need to deceive others.

Dan

Two things.

One, I'm not wrong.

Just for one example, read this very thread and tell me it's not the exact same fellow.

Same MO -- starts a blog, polls, lots of promises, comes to TMP with requests and then claims that "it will all be made." Calls people "brothers."

To be fair, the difference is now he's posting pictures of models now and then, some even completed. Nothing I'd ever buy, but at least he's not making up stories about making models. But based on his previous history, it is really important he stay away from all the wild promises at least until he's delivered a product to market. But he clearly can't help himself.

Two, let's not forget that it's all toy soldiers, isn't it? No one should be so emotionally invested in them as to have "hopes dashed." It's all just a bit of fun. Or should be.

The toy soldiers should be the "bit of fun". Not the build up of false expectations.

Dan

If it's all fun, then the failure to deliver should not "dash hopes." Simply not serious enough. I do find the constant posturing annoying, and I'm not alone:

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And his specific admission (and playing for sympathy, never a grand idea on Frothers):
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That said, as I've said before, if he just goes away, makes models, then comes back and says, "oi, I've some models for sale, do you want some?" and then actually delivers them to paying customers, he will go a long way toward mending fences. I hope that happens, although history suggests it will not.

Come on, is it news that he feeds some need he has by posting as incessantly as he does, including the necro-ing of ancient threads?

I believe day my rational arguements about the nature of forums will take hold- hope springs eternal. ;)

That said, as I've said before, if he just goes away, makes models, then comes back and says, "oi, I've some models for sale, do you want some?" and then actually delivers them to paying customers, he will go a long way toward mending fences. I hope that happens, although history suggests it will not.

Agreed with you on this- I think it is 100% obvious that it is the same guy, and until something actually gets into production I see no reason to pay any attention to any claims made.

Of course, I am now contributing to this thread necromancy, so I am off to find some way to repent. :)

-Will

He's copped to it himself, Will, see my link in the preceding. Now it's just a matter of seeing how shameless he is, if he'll post more threads showing little shapes, with promises to make them into ten poses of this and that … and if he does, how people will respond.

Or perhaps this will give him the incentive to actually make and put something up for sale. I'm happy to play that role too. It's amusing to poke him, but if poking him gets him to actually make and sell something, that's a collateral benefit.