"Would you play with female or child casualty figures?" Topic

A while back I asked who made female casualty figures. We mostly do RPGs, and riding into town or a clearing with a couple of wounded folk or corpses can be a good set up for an adventure, if a little cliche. It can also, for some reason, make players paranoid.

Someone said he found the discussion tasteless. Fair enough. Someone else suggested female casualties would work as objective markers for some FIW skirmish games.

So if you could get casualty figures (dead or immobile wounded) of women and children, would you use them in your games, or would it be too creepy for you? Assume the figures are in the appropriate period and scale for your games.

Yes, I'd use both dead and injured women or children

Yes, I'd use injured women, but not children

Yes, I'd used dead women, but not children

Yes, I'd use dead women but only injured children

No, the very idea is distasteful

Number 1.

I remove the dead from play, man, woman, or child, or dog, or horse or whatever. So I don't use casualty figures at all.

There are female Zombies, why are wounded or dead females more offensive? They are toys not real people.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

The last choice should be a simple "no."

Number 1. It's a game.

The first.

And I would add anyone who finds it distasteful that the effects of war should be alluded to in a wargame is a hopeless prig. I mean, if you're offended by that, why aren't you offended by the fact that you are directing the simulated slaughter of combatants? Soldiers are people too.

I just realized I offered options to use women but not children, but never offered options the other way. If you think you need those choices, then feel free to state your preference.

And we can offer a simple no choice, without going into the moral, ethical or gustatory (ok, that is in poor taste) ramifications of the choice. It's not like TMP polls ever suffer from too many choices anyway.

Number 1

Yes, I'd use both dead and injured women or children apropos to the game or scenario.

Now would the zombie be dead or wounded.

To the real question – I really don't like using any wounded markers or dead markers for any reason but I see the RPG reason for having them.

I bought some WW2 Germans on EBay one time that included a guy hanging from the gallows. I threw the figure out, I did find it extremely distasteful.

I think I would feel the same about children, possibly the women too, though nowhere near as distasteful as the guy hanging.

I would and have used such.

#1. We are only playing with TOY soldiers, not the real things.

Seriously, #1, It's just a game – even though I rarely use casualty figures.
Humorously #2 & #3 as long as I could paint them up as my ex who stole and destroyed a lot of my figures.

If the game needed it, sure. But so far I haven't ever had a need…

#1
I like having casualty figures on the table.

I'd use them all.

#1 definitely. I find the idea that some corpses could be more distasteful than others to be quite strange, honestly.

Yes to #1.

I don't normally have casualty markers on the table but do use Hasslefree's picture as food markers in an alien invasion game.

x42

# 1 – As long as my gaming group didn't object I think my response to anyone else would have to be bite my butt

I would actually prefer these as the woman and the children are expendable. I could then save the tough hard fighting boys for the real action.

Probably not.

I use dead and wounded figs to denote shaken / broken types of moral rather than use a marker.

Dunno how women and children fit into that.

Your thoughts aren't tasteless but should fit the game. If collateral damage was an issue in the game. Using women and children as casualties to denote negative points might be very appropriate.

mjc

I don't bother bying or painting casualties. Combatant casualties are removed with the possible exception of vehicles that might be used as cover. I play wargames as an excersise of the mind, not because people get killed, be it in real conflicts or on the tabletop.

Rudi

I'm in the #1 category as well.

No…tacky

Number 1. If you're doing a roleplay, or particularly horror gaming of any kind, then having something which does make you feel in some way 'icky' has to be a good thing!

And as has been said, they're toys, it's a game!

Good question.

I don't really use casualty figures, but I've been thinking of making some, from left over figures.

I guess it would depend on the game. For a strictly soldier to soldier skirmish game, probably not, not even to show "colateral damage".
In a fantasy setting, more likely, yes, if it had a function in the game.

So, that would be option #6; depends on the game.

While I will happily use the most tasteless military figures(NKVD blocking detachments, German feld hospitals, the Peter Pig 'bloke run over by a tank' figures), I would probably draw the line at explicit models of any civilian casualties, regardless of sex. These fall into the same category as models of japanese schoolgirls or S&M torture scenes, from my pov.

I don't think these sorts of things reflect well on our hobby, we are already commonly viewed as unwashed gun loving warmongers with a nazi fetish who live with their parents, but now we also paint models of dead children. Great PR.

Well, you did ask….

Short answer: never.

I've used undead women and children in a game. Isn't that really the same thing?

It's a bit different if your talking about D&D compared with, say, Kosovo.

'It looks like the village has been ravaged by were-ducks. There are bodies all around, but a small girl emerges from under a turnip cart. she pleads: "Please, find Mr.Fluffy!"

Nobody would be put off by that.

Incidentaly, I have recently purchased some Chickens and Skull & Crossbones markers for this purpose.

I agree with Barmy, it very much depends on the game being played. I wouldn't use them to represent murdered civilians, but if they are combatants, then yes. I would like them for my Blood and Swash pirate games, where the women pirates are right in there trading saber blows with the men. It always seems odd when a lady pirate dies and a dead man appears on the floor where she was.

I'm curious as to why women casualties are being distinguished from men casualties.

Most of the games that I have don't require the use of casualty markers or figs, but if they have a use in the game, I would readily use them.

Sure, why not?

I play computer games after all, they're often way, way, more gruesome than anything that can be achieved with minis.

#1

-Kle.

I'd have a problem with it – I know I shouldn't, after all, the fact I'm using war as gaming entertainment loses me the moral high ground straight away. But I just feel weird about models of dead women and children.
I'd put it down to evolution – protecting women and children is pretty deeply ingrained, whereas competition with other males is encouraged. So it's not my fault – it's genetic!
Cheers,
Michael Lovejoy

Not sure … I've used male casualty marks but not female or child ones. Just how different is a miniature of a hurt child/woman "civilian" from a a photograph of one? You wouldn't want the photo … but you would want the mini …
where is the line?

Looks like the slope could get slippery here. What if a none gamer comes across your collection of interesting minis? What would they say?

I'm curious as to why women casualties are being distinguished from men casualties.

Perhaps becuase historically female civilian casualties are often shown a level of abject brutality far beyond those of male combatants…?
link
link

Having said that: I agree with Barmy & Chris

Yes, I'd use both dead and injured women or children

Use 'em all, if they were in the game. The more dead on the field, the better. Shows you used your army well. They are toys, it's a wargame!

I have both women and children figures for my western skirmish games populating towns, the stagecoach and other features as NPC's and occiaisonally, something bad happens and they are laid on their side if wounded and removed if KIA. Any player responsible for civilian casualties suffers bad game effects ranging from basic VP penalties to having every NPC and player turn on them, so I don't see it as condoning or encouraging hideous behavior.

I'd paint female casualty figures if they made them. I know it's simply squeemish on my part but as a parent, I probably couldn't see myself actually painting a child casualty figure. No real moral objection, I just couldn't/wouldn't be comfortable.

Yes, I'd use both dead and injured women or children.

Hmmm… since I mostly play fantasy games, often with female warrior types. I wouldn't object to using female casualties as markers in those games.

Children…? Nah, I wouldn't use them. I'll use civilian models, and if they die I'd use some kind of markers to represent them (say if they were carrying loot or something that needed to be recovered), but I have no interest in buying or painting miniatures of dead kids.

Nope.

No, but if I saw them on the rack I wouldn't give it a further thought. I could see these in a horror/fantasy/rpg game, but if I saw these in a straight WWII game, I would likely be offended.

I have not yet used casualty figures, but would if it is appropriate for the period or the particular game being played.

No.

I don't use casualty figures and I don't like splatter in my wargames.

Thanks for asking, Neo. I wouldn't have involved myself in your business without an invitation.

galvinm: We are only playing with TOY soldiers, not the real things.

True, they're toys. There are toys I like, and others I find distasteful. Have you tried out any good butt-plugs lately?

Uh uh on the children – see enough massacres of kids and 'innocents' on the news to not want to depict it at home.
Women fight and shoot in many games and in all genres. If you use figures for casualties of combatants have no problem with this. Anyone that gets jollies from gunning down civilians and putting markers out there as trophies is in need of some counseling – some latent anger issues, perhaps. Stick to 'Grand Theft Auto' or some such would be my advice. I use gaming as an escape not as a depiction of real life. Let's game the firebombing of Hamburg at skirmish level!. yeah! Or lets have a game of 'ethnic cleansing' yeah! I realize there are child armies and figs for same – but my 'AK47' armies lack that particular flavor.
Don't know if having a child of my own colors this choice – and I really couldn't care too much if anyone games with ANY casualty figure. Just wouldn't be at my home or with my participation.