"Where in the World is Historicon 2010??" Topic

I have been hearing a lot of rumors that Historicon 2010 is moving to the Baltimore Convention Center. The HMGS Yahoo Group had a listing of upcoming events and there is no location for Historicon 2010. Does anyone know the answer??

link

A listed date implies a location was determined and a contract of some sort signed to hold the dates. So I imagine someone should have the answer.

The BoD is still trying to get the best kick-backs they can. Stay tuned.

Uh Oh! Here we go again.

To Quote Paul Harvey:

"Stand by for NEWS!"

I will go as far as the Classic Inn in Lancaster in one day. Maybe from there launch a quick recon to some other site to visit the Dealers, then back to base camp, and back home. And Origins will be looking good for gaming.

Let's not go there again please.
I find that hard to believe as cost would rise through the roof for members. Hotel costs, parking costs, restaurant meals, etc. It is quite pricey in the Baltimore Harbor area, and the convention center is right across the street from the downtown harbor. I love it there, but hosting a convention there would be very costly.

We're in a depression/economic armagedon etc according to our Fearless Leader, so maybe the Baltimore hotels would be willing to cut a deal and reduce its prices. Every other retail business is doing the same with their prices.

I have not heard but then again I did not ask. I know they are pretty disfuctional right now and I don't think they could get it done. My guess is they will talk about it in some form at Cold Wars. I dont want to pull my hair out so I am just going to wait for the bad news until then….
VR
James Mattes

So long as it's in the northeast, I'll be there.

I am going to Origins for the first time this year. Our local gaming group has 5 members who will be running games there this year. I would like to see a midwest convention with a lot of historical games, I really don't want to have to drive all the way to the East Coast.

Yes I know it is called HMGS East but if they move it further East I wonder what kind of effect that will have on people from the midwest. (Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Wisconsin, I know quite a number of people who make the drive to Lancaster each year from these states)

Can the HMGS East BoD project how many attendees they might expect in a "downward-spiralling" economy? They may wish to stay put?

Can ANYBODY?

I think attendance will be down a bit if the Orioles are in town for the weekend. Parking would be a nightmare. Plus the higher cost of hotels won't help.

Ogdenlulimus 10 Feb 2009 4:07 p.m. PST wrote:
Can the HMGS East BoD project how many attendees they might expect in a "downward-spiralling" economy? They may wish to stay put?

We have heard gas, economy, HMGS-policies for the past three years. Sure the economy is in the tank but last year everyone said the same. Our conventions are CHEAP unless you are buying tons of lead. The last four or five conventions attendance has been up. UNLESS they tank the ecomomy between now and July I think it will be okay. BUT I agree with you they "may" want to wait. I am putting food, water and ammo in the basement! Then again if there are cnx coventions at the Gaylord we might get that cheap. I will know something next month….
VR
James Mattes

Word from several reliable sources tells me the Lancaster Host knows about the planned move of Historicon to Baltimore for 2010 and needs to know by the end of this month if East is going or not. Appears they have another client in the wings with eyes on our time spot in late JulY. Thus, the BoD has to vote on this move very soon. If we do go to Baltimore for 2010 forget about returning to the Lancaster Host – at least for Historicon anyway. When asked to put a rating based on 1 to 10 about this proposed move to Baltimore (1 being it isn't going to happen, 10 it's a done deal), the answer was 12.
I've discussed all this with several dealers within our dealer association and with others I spoke with at the recent Williamsburg (VA) Muster convention. The consensus is that most will undoubtedly attend – we have little choice when all is said and done. The question remained, however, would we return if the BCC in Baltimore turned into an attendance and/or financial fiasco similar to the Timonium fairgrounds venture.
Toby Barrett Thoroughbred Figures

Aren't we required to toss the person who brought this up again off a high building?

Hmmm… Lets move the convention to Baltimore? Little parking, Very few hotels near the convention center, no parking and what little there is is paid, anemic restaurant choices (especially affordable) and hotel prices are even more expensive than Lancaster (which is quite a trick considering how lodging has escalated in Lancaster in recent years). Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

This is from some experience in attending past conventions at the BCC. I would seriously have to reconsider my attendance if this happens and I live within an 1 1/2 hours from Baltimore. I can say this, I would rather go back to Timonium than to Baltimore.

I'd be happy if they just pick a location with a real airport.

It's the HMGS-East, don't ya'll have more than one city up there? Seems I've heard of such places like Pittsburgh, Philly, Baltimore, New York, etc.

Or howabout something along one of those big tollways ya'll have instead of Freeways?

Maybe someone should buy the BOD a map and/or a hotel guide?

BonzaiBob 11 Feb 2009 5:05 a.m. PST WRote:
Hmmm… Lets move the convention to Baltimore? …..

Bob,
see these threads: TMP link
link
link

I think most of you concerns were well addressed.

VR
James Mattes

Master Caster 11 Feb 2009 4:16 a.m. PST wrote:
Word from several reliable sources tells me the Lancaster Host knows about the planned move of Historicon to Baltimore for 2010 and needs to know by the end of this month if East is going or not. Appears they have another client in the wings with eyes on our time spot in late JulY.

The Host managment did tell HMGS several years ago that if it was to loss a convention they would prefer it be HCON rather then Cold Wars.
VR
James Mattes

What never has been answered is… what happens after 6 PM? The doors close and no more gaming. What's the point?

avidgamer
"What never has been answered is… what happens after 6 PM? The doors close and no more gaming. What's the point?"

I don't think this is correct. My daughters attended an event at the Baltimore Convention Center last summer and there were activities scheduled with start times as late as 2:00 AM. I think event organizers are allowed operate around the clock.

Duncan

" I think event organizers are allowed operate around the clock."

okay great but how much MORE does this cost? Perhaps the bottom line cost is better to pay the Host for the weekend and have it around the clock? Oh and we wouldn't be paying for parking at the Host too so… I can't see any REAL benefit with Baltimore.

In my attempt to be truly impartial, the benefits to moving Historicon to Baltimore would be numerous in that it is a convention center that provides all of the services that Historicon requires. Costs could increase for some. However, for me I would be saving money in transportation, lodging and food and I would be able to stay for 4 days instead of 2 or 3. Plus, the choices are that much greater. Some of the best food in Maryland is in walking distance including some great take-out. There is also increased competition with hotels. Concerns about traffic due to baseball games should not be an issue, as addressed in previous threads.

On the other hand, the convention would lose a bit of the intimate feel that the Host has. Personally, I like the outdoor space at the Host. The BCC has some great outdoor space, but none of it is green.

In any event, my money is the BoD voting no move. Nobody likes to make unpopular decisions in an economic climate such as this without significant cost savings. Any concnerns on convention growth will take second place. As the move would, in my view, largely address space, capacity and facility issues, there will be little cost savings, if any.

"intimate feel"

Having nothing to go by but oh-so-many anecdotes about the Host, I still don't really have any overwhelming urge to feel that… um… intimate.

I'd consider going to an event held at a decent facility like the BCC or the Gaylord. That's probably not a benefit in avidgamer's view!

Allen

The answer is "With Matt Lauer".

"The question remained, however, would we return if the BCC in Baltimore turned into an attendance and/or financial fiasco similar to the Timonium fairgrounds venture."

A fair and reasonable question. First, I would suggest that if they do move, that it would be best to go (fill in the blank) for two years. You can't predicate your second year on your first year's attendance, as what if word of mouth afterward was positive for those that went to the new place? The quality of Timonium (or lack thereof) was well known prior to the con there, so it is an unfair comparison as whatever the shortcomings of the (fill in the blank), it will be light years better than the fair grounds.

As to the economy, let me just say this – I am not seeing it across the board. Area restaraunts are full, with waits of one hour or more on many nights. Malls are jammed. I just spent a night at a high end resort and they were booked full for the weekend, as was their spa and other facilities. While I have no doubt many are indeed suffering, many more are apparently not. I have no idea where the majority of HMGSE con attendees fall in that range, but neither does anyone else.

The pros and cons of the BCC have been well covered. If that is the site, then best to look at the details, and not the location, of what would make or break a summer con there. And by the by, unless it is the Red Sox or Yankees playing there, you can discount crowd problems as by July, the O's will be in the tank.

The Gaylord is indeed gorgeous, but I understand the price and other strings attached are out of this world. Perhaps they will modify as times goes on. I hope so.

Yes the Gaylord is way out of line right now. I recommended we used a conference scheduling and operations company I know as there are off sets that could have been worked out. I see it done often in the conferences I handle. It was not done. Room rates would have been around $209.00 USD as well without the organization discount. I worked two Inagural events there. Rooms were $995.00 USD for the night of the 20th.

By the way Jim take your wife to dinner at the Old Hickory Steakhouse in the Gaylord. It is worth it.

VR
James Mattes

That stuff is so hard to guage. Shortly after Hcon I saw rooms at the Host for a weekend listed at $300 USD a night on Expedia. The Gaylord certainly seems full of itself, that is for sure. Funny thing is that they have excluded themselves from regional Feds staying there as they within a 30 mile radius of most local federal workers, and by law they cannot stay overnight if that close to their home agency. I am sure the owners knew that, so they must have built if with others in mind instead. That right there kind of tells you where the prices are going to be.

NEWSFLASH – Williamsburg Muster 2010 will be in the same venue as Williamsburg Muster 2009.

Some good things remain good.

I think Baltimore is great,we can spend money on parking hotels and no miniatures.Obama is the HMGS president and con organizer too.Really the more spent on parking and hotels leaves that much less for the dealer area.Another great idea.Rob

"I think Baltimore is great,we can spend money on parking hotels…"

Those things are really hard to drive too. :-)

Hey, here is a suggestion. Why don't we all wait to see what happens, then look at the facts, then make some comments? Just an idea.

This news is hot off the press this morning…..
Seems the BoD and the BCC have a meeting of the minds. A verbal agreement has been made and the contract(s) for moving Historicon 2010 to Baltimore and the BCC will be signed this week.

Bob,
see these threads: TMP link
link
link

I think most of you concerns were well addressed.

VR
James Mattes

Well James, what can I say? I read through the TMP link you provided and there seems to be a lot of people that are not willing to make the leap, including a dealer or three.

Next, I looked at the link you provided for parking. Seems like a lot of parking establishments. I must say that they are all Paid Parking "Daily rates range from $10-$25, depending on location and day. FYI: A charge for parking, usually at about this daily rate, is also standard at most Inner Harbor and downtown hotels". That would be a decent increase in expenses. Also note that your map also shows the nearest parking 3 blocks away. I really don't mind walking, but what about unloading/loading game material and again availability of the closest to the BCC. Also note that the convention will be at the height of tourist season, so what will the available parking in these places be during July? Check out this link for Parking in Baltimore: link

Finally the Lodging link. I went over the link you provided and did some Rate checking using this years H-Con dates as an example. Well, room rates vary from $138 USD to $395 USD a night. Note also that the high end prices are for the closest to the BCC and start at $359 USD and go up. Also there were only 4 hotels in the general area that were under $200 USD and one of these was booked already and the others were well outside of reasonable walking distance.

Restaurants? Well there are some over 5 blocks a way and there are some nice and expensive restaurants down at the Inner harbor. It seems to me that there was a fast food restaurant right near the BCC, but I don't know if it is still there. It was small in size though.

Suffice it to say, while everyone is complaining how much Lancaster is now (the Host is $149 USD which is among the most expensive in the area) not many will like the cost of Baltimore.

Suffice it to say, no I don't think that mine or anyone else's concerns were addressed in the decision. Again, I attended two miniatures conventions (IIRC), one Orioles game and four hockey games at the arena (back when the Skipjacks were in the AHL) in this area and I was able to familiarize myself with the area pretty well. To stay at a reasonable hotel you will have to travel at least 12 miles and travel, at a minimum, 30 minutes door to door.

If HMGS is worried about expansion then BBC will be the answer. They'll loose plenty of dealers due to ever increasing costs to their overhead in staying in Baltimore and the costs of the dealers tables. Please pay particular attention to the dealer comments in your other TMP link as the Dealers are a BIG draw to the Cons. From what I have heard from the dealers grapevine there are some already looking to not attend future Cons as they are loosing money and lots of it. You may have a waiting list now, but I suspect that you will lose the list and not even have the number of dealers you do now, if the move is made. You loose them you'll loose a big chunk of attendance at the Cons. While I appreciate the hard work that the HMGS is putting into the location search there seems to be more that really needs to be done to make a move effective. I believe that much more thought should be going into locations than what we have now.

IMHO I would not move H-Con until ALL considerations are made. Not just filling check boxes, but actually getting some idea of the economic and distance changes to the attendees and dealers.

Historicon is an HMGS convention and it is within their right to have it wherever they want. Note that the potential attendees will vote with their absence or attendance.

Historygamer:
Don't have the pleasure of your ID, but I have a question about your statement above that follows:
"First, I would suggest that if they do move, that it would be best to go (fill in the blank) for two years. You can't predicate your second year on your first year's attendance, as what if word of mouth afterward was positive for those that went to the new place."
Let's assume for one second that I agree with you. Then why wasn't there a return to Timonium?

"Restaurants? Well there are some over 5 blocks…."

Yes, and there are many a block or less away. Also, there were a couple of places inside the BCC that sold food as well, with prices comparable to the Host.

If what Mastercaster says is correct, then we need to see what the actual details of the convention are before making all sorts of judgements on room rates, parking rates, drop off details, food on site, etc. Once the actual facts are known, then let's judge the deal based on those.

I heard a friend of mine working at the Gaylord will be laid off. How is the economy affecting hotels these days?

I know people who work in corporate for Marriott and things are very very very bad indeed.

The answer is "With Matt Lauer".

nawww, …with Carmen SanDiego…

The problem is that people in the hospitality industry may be laid off due to a down turn in the weekday bookings too. In other words, the weekends could still be tight, at least for now. I truly was stunned at the crowd at the high end resort I stayed at recently.

One other thought. While the economy is a great uncertainty, how many people are offering that as a convenient excuse to not move? In other words, if the economy was fine, would the same people come up with other arguments against moving? Just curious, though it is a fair point to consider – but one must consider the source too.

I believe the BoD has simmered on this topic long enough, and I believe the process has been relatively transparent. See Panzeri's previous posts et al.

As one from Michigan, I'll probably go [provided I can find travel companions for the drive] due to the fact I have family in the area and also tie in visits to battlefield sites etc.

BUT.

I also think this a risky decision; in that its stated reason is to allow growth mainly in dealers. I think there is a significant chance that "new dealers" will barely cover [in # of tables] the dealers who will NOT attend. I've heard that some companies have alerted the BoD that they would not attend at BCC. If they hold true, and a company say, like Old Glory 15s didn't attend, that would be a disappointment for some who look forward to seeing & buying their products. Not all those sales would go over to other product lines available at the con either, as some people want a specific product line. I also reckon, in not attending and saving $1,000s in convention related costs, they would heavily market web sales to make up for it with their customers.

I have NEVER seen a list of those vendors frozen out of attending Historicon, what they bring to sell, how many tables they would want etc. NEVER. And that is not transparency dear BoDs and or Con Directors who may be reading.

So, if it comes to past that some pewter jewelry maker who also sells some pewter figures, or some fantasy/sci-fi ephemera seller now attends [check out some of the Fall In dealers, where apparently tables abound], and OG15s doesn't…well that is not progress in my book. And I won't be back for 2011.

And if the borderline [profit-wise] vendors who feel compelled to go to the BIG show, find escalating costs against flat or declining sales do the books, I believe they won't be back either. But they'll probably try it once.

The Gaylord stood up a ton of extra staff for the Obama inauguration. I am not surprised they are cutting back. They do have a ton of events on the schedule still for the remainder of the year but many have/will scale back on size.
VR
James Mattes

rmcaras 12 Feb 2009 1:12 p.m. PST wrote:
I have NEVER seen a list of those vendors frozen out of attending Historicon.

I have seen the waiting list a few years back. BUT even here on TMP last year Scale Creep (Mark) could not get in.

VR
James Mattes

Well James, what can I say? I read through the TMP link you provided and there seems to be a lot of people that are not willing to make the leap, including a dealer or three.

I saw one exhibitor that said he would not attend but three? Which ones were they?

Next, I looked at the link you provided for parking. Seems like a lot of parking establishments. I must say that they are all Paid Parking "Daily rates range from $10-$25, depending on location and day.

Yes that is true, I know they were working on a plan but I do not know if they have worked out a deal for a lower price. Paid parking unfortunately in a major market is going to be a fact of life.

I really don't mind walking, but what about unloading/loading game material and again availability of the closest to the BCC.

Yes no one wants that. They (HMGS) have that in mind and have been working (as noted in the link I posted) on making it painless for the GMs to load and unload at the site.

Also note that the convention will be at the height of tourist season, so what will the available parking in these places be during July?

I can tell you from living there at least until 15 March of this year that parking on the weekend is much easier then during the week. They were working on a contract to obtain exclusivity on one lot next to the conventions site.

Check out this link for Parking in Baltimore: link

here is an extract from your link:
"How To Find Parking Near the Inner Harbor
Difficulty: Easy"

Great Link by the way I have bookmarked it.

Finally the Lodging link. I went over the link you provided and did some Rate checking using this years H-Con dates as an example. Well, room rates vary from $138 USD USD to $395 USD USD a night. Note also that the high end prices are for the closest to the BCC and start at $359 USD USD and go up.

As with the Host and several other hotels at Lancaster HMGS gets an organization rate (and a small refund on each room over a set number) I believe in the thread I referenced that is discussed as to which hotels they were talking to.

Restaurants? … It seems to me that there was a fast food restaurant right near the BCC, but I don't know if it is still there. It was small in size though.

There are many I am in N.C. right now and do not have my data here but they abound. As for price you can get just about anything you want in the on the inter harbour from fast food to high end.
And one thing that some say (not you but this just came to mind) On the other thread someone was saying there is no fast food chains at the BCC. My question to them is how far is the nearest McDonalds type place to the Host, over 4 city blocks and that is Arby's McDonalds is over a mile. (end of rant)
Here is a quick list of Inter harbour restaurants
American Casual
• Capital City Brewing Company
Harborplace, Light Street Pavilion
410-539-7468
Price: Moderate
The name is a dead giveaway that this brew pub chain is imported from DC.
• The Cheesecake Factory
Harborplace, Pratt Street Pavilion
410-234-3990
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate
Expect a wait at this national eatery known for its huge portions and, of course, cheesecake.
• Edgar's Billiards Club
Pratt and Light Streets on skywalk
410-752-8080
Outdoor dining
Price: Moderate
The full-service restaurant inside this 16-table pool hall serves basic American fare.
• ESPN Zone
Power Plant, Pratt Street
410-685-3776
Outdoor dining
Price: Moderate
Games, dining and TVs galore are the norm at Baltimore's location of this national chain.
• Grille 700
700 Aliceanna St.
410-895-1879
Price: Expensive
Inside the Marriott Waterfront Hotel in Harbor East
• Hard Rock Cafe Baltimore
Power Plant, Pratt Street
410-347-7625
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate
At eastern end of the harbor, this national chain offers burgers and the like amid musical memorabilia.
• M&S Grill
Harborplace, Pratt Street Pavilion
410-547-9333
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate – Expensive
Features traditional American grill specialties such as pot roast, prime rib, roasted chicken and seafood.
• J. Paul's
Harborplace, Light Street Pavilion
410-659-1889
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate-Expensvie
Barbeque, seafood, salads and sandwiches are on the menu at this regional chain.
Asian-Fusion
• Roy's
Marriott Hotel, Harbor East
410-659-0099
Price: Expensive
Offering what it dubs "Hawaiian fusion cuisine," Roy's blends European sauces and Asian spices.
Continental/New American
• Charleston Restaurant
1000 Lancaster Street
410-332-7373
Price: Very Expensive
Continental cuisine with a southern twist from Cindy Wolfe.
• Hampton's
Intercontinental Harbor Court Hotel
410-234-0550
Price: Very Expensive
Old World elegance is paired with contemporary American cuisine. Jacket preferred but not required.
• Brightons Orangerie
Intercontinental Harbor Court Hotel
410-234-0550
Price: Expensive
Breakfast and lunch served everyday and afternoon tea on Fridays and Saturdays.
• Watertable
Renaissance Harborplace Hotel
410-685-8439
Price: Expensive
Formerly, Windows the view remains the same. Cuisine is upscale Chesapeake Bay fare.
Cuban
• Babalu Grill
Market Place
410-234-9898
Outdoor dining
Price: Moderate-Expensive
Ceviche is the specialty at this eatery serving contemporary and classic Cuban cuisine.
Irish
• Tir Na Nog Irish Bar & Grill
Harborplace, Pratt Street Pavilion
410-483-8968
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate
Enjoy creative Irish fare in a tavern atmosphere.
• James Joyce Irish Pub & Restaurant
President Street
410-727-5107
Price: Moderate
Cozy pub serves American and Irish fare.
Japanese
• Edo Sushi Inner Harbor
Harborplace, Pratt Street Pavilion
410-843-9804
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Expensive
The Inner Harbor is home to this popular local chain's third location.
Mexican
• Chipotle
Pratt Street, Pier 4
410-837-8353
Outdoor dining
Price: Inexpensive
Have it your way at this national chain specializing in made-to-order burritos.
• Big Kahuna Cantina
Harborplace, Light Street Pavilion
410-539-7060
Outdoor dining
Price: Moderate
Casual fusion of Mexican and Polynesian fare.
Pizza
• California Pizza Kitchen
Harborplace, Pratt Street Pavilion
410-783-9339
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate
People line up for this national chain's hearth-baked pizzas topped with international flavor.
Seafood
• Blue Sea Grill
Market Place
410-837-7300
Outdoor dining
Price: Expensive
Contemporary seafood dishes are served in an elegant setting.
• Phillips Harborplace
Harborplace, Light Street Pavilion
410-685-6600
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate
Dig in to Maryland-style seafood at this popular regional chain. Carryout available.
• McCormick & Schmick's Seafood Restaurant
Pier 5 Hotel
410-234-1300
Price: Expensive
Changing menu offers upscale, traditional seafood.
• Oceanaire Seafood Room
801 Aliceanna St.
443-872-0000
Price: Expensive
Menu changes daily based on market availability.
• Rusty Scupper Restaurant
Inner Harbor's western side
410-727-3678
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Expensive
Enjoy dramatic views of Fells Point and the Inner Harbor while dining on Maryland seafood.
Spanish
• La Tasca
Harborplace, Pratt Street Pavilion
410-209-2562
Outdoor dining, waterfront
Price: Moderate
Tasty tapas are on the menu at Baltimore's location of this international chain.
Steak
• Ruth's Chris
Pier 5 Hotel
410-230-0033
Outdoor dining
Price: Expensive – Very Expensive
Upscale steakhouse is part of a national chain.
• Flemings Steak House
720 Aliceanna St.
410-332-1666
Price: Expensive – Very Expensive Chain steak house in Harbor East.
Pricing Key
Typical dinner entrιe prices:
$9 USD & under – Inexpensive
$10 USD to $17 USD – Moderate
$18- $24 USD – Expensive
$25 USD & up – Very Expensive

Suffice it to say, no I don't think that mine or anyone else's concerns were addressed in the decision.

I am sorry you feel that way. For over five year HMGS has been talking about this. Almost every convention HMGS has held a meeting about possible move with members. As far as 2001 when the marketing team was formed it was always talking with the attendees about what we would need if we moved.

To stay at a reasonable hotel you will have to travel at least 12 miles and travel, at a minimum, 30 minutes door to door.

What is reasonable? Sure you can not sleep in the BCC AFAIK. But with the right contract they will be able to stay across the street. There are two or three hotels that do/will have a convention rate. If I were a betting man I would expect that I will pay LESS then I did at the Red Roof Inn across from the Host last year.

If HMGS is worried about expansion then BBC will be the answer.

Here is what IMHO, I think will happen. We will lose some and gain others. I do expect the atmosphere, complexion and experience to be different from the Host. Some exhibitors will not go for a verity of reasons. Others (perhaps even some from overseas) will choice to attend who do not now.

They'll loose plenty of dealers due to ever increasing costs to their overhead in staying in Baltimore and the costs of the dealers tables.

Again in the thread I referenced this was addressed. Exhibitors' tables MIGHT even cost less! The convention committee was very sensitive to the overhead that the exhibitors have at conventions. I know several who do not stay at that Host and drive over to other hotels in Lancaster. Some will do the same in this case. I hope that with additional space, if they more, exhibitors will have room for demo games more displays and a better convention experience.

Please pay particular attention to the dealer comments in your other TMP link as the Dealers are a BIG draw to the Cons.

Not that I am important or have a say, I have read comments and observations from the exhibitors for well over 8 years regarding if HCON should ever move from the Host. There are at least ½ dozen on the convention committee that have been communicating with them well over 10 years on the subject.
There (once again IMHO) there three tiers to the conventions. Exhibitors, Game Masters, and Attendees. I would add a fourth although they fit in the one of the above and that is the volunteers who run the conventions starting in some cases over 18 months out planning and working weekly until D-Day. All have equal consideration. Exhibitors, drive attendance, Games drive attendance, Attendees drive exhibitors willing to attend, A well coordinated staff drives attendance, and willingness of GMs to run events.

From what I have heard from the dealers grapevine there are some already looking to not attend future Cons as they are loosing money and lots of it.

Yes the economy has been a point of concern as long as I can remember (1980s). HMGS conventions have been growing and maintaining attendance while others (Origins type) have seen a decrees in attendance. Conventions have to stay fresh to continue to maintain and grow. Any convention that can not grow will soon start to die.

…..I believe that much more thought should be going into locations than what we have now.

There has been an active process on moving Historicon since before 2001. What more do you feel needs to be done that has not been considered in seven years?

IMHO I would not move H-Con until ALL considerations are made. Not just filling check boxes, but actually getting some idea of the economic and distance changes to the attendees and dealers.

I think you are right. And I think the work has been done.

… Note that the potential attendees will vote with their absence or attendance.

As well as others who will vote to attend perhaps for the first time or the first time in a long time. Good discussion of the concerns. Thanks.
VR
James Mattes
(ONLY a member of the organization)

"If they hold true, and a company say, like Old Glory 15s didn't attend, that would be a disappointment for some who look forward to seeing & buying their products."

Actually I think they were a no-show at a recent con anyway. I would also point out that lots of figure lines don't attend any HMGSE cons, which is always a surprise to me.

" I also reckon, in not attending and saving $1,000s in convention related costs, they would heavily market web sales to make up for it with their customers."

If the economy is hurting their sales, then I hardly think the answer is to drop your prices, and many cannot anyway as they have already pre-paid for the minis from across the ocean, and thus must recover their initial costs. I suspect most would do nothing out of the ordinary. Hey, they are dealers that can't even post pictures of all their figures let alone do anything else.

"I have NEVER seen a list of those vendors frozen out of attending Historicon, what they bring to sell, how many tables they would want etc."

It is my understanding that the waiting list is composed mainly of hobby stores and not direct figure manufacturers. I agree though that I would like to see a lot more of them attend, but oddly enough they have not even shown an interest. Please note that for Hcon, figure lines usually have first preference of attendance.

"So, if it comes to past that some pewter jewelry maker who also sells some pewter figures, or some fantasy/sci-fi ephemera seller now attends [check out some of the Fall In dealers, where apparently tables abound], and OG15s doesn't…well that is not progress in my book. And I won't be back for 2011."

I would agrue that HMGSE long ago made the emphasis on gaming and not dealers, otherwise the business model would be to take as many dealers as possible then fill up the remaining space with games, but clearly that is not the case. It is a wargame convention, not a dealer convention. It is true that Hcon is out of room for dealers using the present business model. For the record, I might be inclined to switch that model, but that is just me.

On the subject of hotels, I heard on the radio today that Marriott's sales were way off, but that a large portion of that was from their time shares. I am sure room nights are off too, but the point is the hotel world is hard to read sometimes.

My understanding is that a majority of hotel chains income comes from business travellers. Hotels are much more open to conventions at the moment as businesses cut back on travel and eliminate retreats. I'm sure that a great deal is available out there for an enterprising convention.